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| by Stebbo |
| Stebbo |
I have been running a G68 with Dynaudio Contour speakers in a 5.1 config. Front three recently replaced with the latest 20i & 25i C. for 18-20 years. I recently replaced my amp with a Primare 35.8.
I am 75% music and 25% Av stuff and have been very happy with both. Sources have been CD and streamer via coax into the G68. I mainly listen to music in either Direct or Trifield DSP mode.
It is time to redecorate our lounge and we will be having some electrical work done etc and and I thought is was time to add to ceiling speakers to allow a future change to the processor. BUT, Trifield music is so very important that I want to see what other alternatives there are out there.
There are plenty of fabulous AV processors that do a million channels but what do they do with music? I am sure many do a 'direct' mode but any alternatives that are close to Trifield or music DSP settings?
I could just stick with what I have and find a G65 or maybe a 861v6 or v8, but with all the work being done in the house I thought it would be a good time to look at alternatives.
Thanks
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| by 3dit0r |
| 3dit0r |
Trifield is not just a simple channel upmixer, it’s a very specific way of doing it which has certain unique features and benefits. To quote from an article around the time of the 565, when these things were discussed a fair bit- “the signals for the left, right and centre speakers are calculated in an MST matrix, which is a phase- amplitude shuffler that redistributes the sounds on a constant energy-with-frequency basis. Meridian claims that the process offers significant improvements over the Blumlein stereo system, which converts phase differences between the microphone signals into amplitude differences in the speaker signals. Trifield's major advantages are that "the frontal signals are redistributed to have different stereo widths at low and high frequencies, ‘correcting' for the fact that we perceive two-channel stereo width differently according to frequency; the frontal image is constant energy in terms of the input left-right original; the frontal width of the stereo image can be adjusted." There is a fuller article here going into some detail in the history and differences, which is more about the original Gerzon approach - Meridian goes beyond this using DSP to achieve some aspects not possible in the analogue domain.
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| by spinaltap |
| spinaltap |
Join the queue. I’m in the same position as you. Initially, I investigated the ‘budget’ options as I was overwhelmed by the high cost of buying the likes of Lyngdorf, Trinnov or Storm|Audio. Over time I’ve adjusted my thinking. Standards change quickly, resulting in a constant cycle of selling and buying replacement kit. Plus, some brands (Arcam, for example) bench test their designs in the marketplace, resulting in buggy software that can sometimes render the product inoperable. By comparison, the reputable brands are more likely to fully test their designs before release. By comparison, if, for example, you had purchased one of the first Trinnov AVP’s some 10 ago, you would not have been in a position that required you to sell it for the latest version of essentially the same product but equipped to the latest audio/video standards. Instead, you will have been able to incrementally upgrade your original Trinnov purchase. The same applies to Storm|Audio. Even though it might be ‘used’ you can submit your AVP to the manufacturer for testing (either brand) to renew the product with a fresh/renewed 5 year warranty (for a fee). Over time the Trinnov or Storm|Audio AVP subsequently becomes the authentic ‘budget’ purchase - especially if you purchase a used example. Both brands have a well-earned reputation for reliability. Why have I set aside Lyngdorf? Should you decide, for example, to upgrade its HDMI card, the customer is given a limited time to submit the whole AVP back to base - typical cost £3k. Compare the same HDMI card upgrade on Trinnov: £900 (fitted by your dealer, or by you if you’re sufficiently handy with a screwdriver). For me, I’m saving the pennies to purchase either a Storm|Audio or Trinnov AVP - as I have also been buying open box/ex-demonstration/used Meridian kit to partner either AVP.
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| by spinaltap |
| spinaltap |
From the May/June 2024 edition of ‘Widescreen Review’ on the Storm|Audio ISR Fusion… Movie studios have decided to cheat the public by almost never using any of the capabilities built-in to Dolby Atmos or DTS:X when they create Immersive Sound soundtracks for theatrical or home movies. Doing that properly requires putting one or more sound engineers at mixing consoles for days at a time while they work out what sounds should appear in height channels, what sounds should be in ear-level channels and what sounds should be in BOTH ear-level and height channels.
Dolby and DTS both allow sophisticated placement and movement of objects in 3D space, but you might hear that done properly in one out of 50 movie soundtracks and then it might last for the duration of one helicopter fly-over and never again during an entire two-hour movie. It’s quite pathetic. And the studios don’t do any better with DTS:X mixing. It’s not the fault of Dolby Atmos or DTS:X that their soundtracks are so terrible. The problem is 100 percent created by the studios being interested only in putting “Dolby Atmos” or “DTS:X” on the boxes so they will sell without putting any actual intelligence into their ersatz Immersive Sound soundtracks. With streaming, there’s even LESS “name recognition” of Immersive Sound. Streaming programming also never gets actual sound engineers. Instead, for Dolby Atmos soundtracks, they appear to put the original 5.1 or 7.1 mix through Dolby Surround (a terrible sounding upmixer that makes everything sound worse) to upmix the 5.1 or 7.1 to 11.1. Then they encode those 11 fake and bad-sounding channels as though they are 11 discrete channels created by sound engineers at the console. Except studios don’t do proper Dolby Atmos or DTS:X soundtracks more than one or two out of 100 titles. DTS:X soundtracks happen the same way, only those are upmixed through Neural:X. Neural:X sounds a little better than Dolby Surround, but not much.
To hear these movies with actual decent Immersive Sound, you have to forget the DTS:X or Dolby Atmos decoding completely, and use the AuroMatic upmixer instead. It is a revelation. You simply shouldn’t bother with Immersive Sound in 2024 if you don’t have AuroMatic in your system. In Star Trek Beyond, there is a scene when 100s or 1,000s of one-man ships swarm Enterprise and gain entry through the hull by making man-sized holes. Once they get inside Enterprise, fighting breaks out all over the ship. Using native decoding, the height channels are silent for this entire boarding scene except for the computer voice saying “Red Alert” several times that comes through in the height channels. There is literally no other sound in the height channels. Yet if you were there on the ship while that was happening, you would be surrounded by the sounds of combat and weapons echoing off the ceiling everywhere… you would be immersed in that sound, but as released by the studios, you get terrible, dumb, awful, and useless Immersive Sound. But turn off Dolby Atmos or DTS:X and switch to AuroMatic and you experience a revelation of realistic on-ship combat and the “Red Alert” announcements remain in the height channels. |
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| by 3dit0r |
| 3dit0r |
I think it depends which adapter cards you’re after - some are more common than others, but yes, second-hand mostly, although some dealers might have some new old stock, depending on the generation of the 861. 861v8 was only discontinued very recently so there’s a chance of a new processor or ex-demo, and possibly new cards for these, I imagine.
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| by Alastair |
| Alastair |
Alternatives are properly Dolby Pro logic related. My Marantz has a centre spread option which works well to take the localisation away from the centre speaker to give a more even sound across the front. It’s not a Trifield replacement from memory; made too many changes to really remember but it was for some time my preference when I had an 861 / G65, although I did eventually gravitate to PLII Music after tweaking the centre and rear speaker settings.
Anthem have a music mode but I’ve never heard it.
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| by 3dit0r |
| 3dit0r |
Honestly, I think if you love Trifield it's pretty much irreplaceable and still unique. I also think, for music in a multichannel processor, Meridian still sounds best, especially any of the 861 series - would you rather have 7.1 sublime channels or a gazillion mediocre ones? I picked up an 861 and have been very happy with this, they really are very good. Even the 861v4 with a Linear Power Supply is a significant step-up from a G68. You can add an ID40 card for superb streaming as long as you pay for Roon. If you want a real upgrade, get some DSPs 
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| by 3dit0r |
| 3dit0r |
Almost all Surround processors have some way of doing this, don’t they, and always have as far as I remember?
Whether the OP, who specifically loves Trifield, will like them, though, is a complete unknown - they all have their own ways of doing this (and some may be better - who knows?) but they're not Trifield as Meridian were a sole licensee, as I recall, apart from a short-lived software version, which disappeared pretty quickly.
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| by spinaltap |
| spinaltap |
Meridian could have adopted the Focal or JBL Synthesis approach. Each manufacturer partnered with Storm|Audio and Trinnov respectively to produce a customised variant of their products.
Meridian could choose a similar path for a customised branded Meridian AVP: one that included SpeakerLink outputs. Indeed, Storm|Audio are willing to partner Meridian in such a venture - but I strongly suspect that Meridian much prefer their existing Trinnov relationship.
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| by spinaltap |
| spinaltap |
I have personal experience of both Trinnov and Storm|Audio responding to my pre-sales enquiries on the evening of Christmas Eve. I very much doubt other such manufacturers would similarly respond to potential customers.
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| by Stebbo |
| Stebbo |
Although I was not going to install my Lyngdorf MP40 until May. I couldnt resist. So installed with Mogami XLR cables into a Primare 35.8, still only 5.1 until the work is completed in May, However I did install 3 subs. 1 as lfe, an old Proac ER1 and two as L & R subs, they are small Rel T5/x. Speakers are Dynaudio Contour all round. Had some trouble with eArc to and from TV, but that was me plugging the HDMI cable into the wrong port.  Sky TV, Netflix, Discovery plus all fabulous. Music just amazing. I am defaulting to Auro 2D set to ‘small’ and strength 15. I will say it is as good as and/or better than my G68 in Trifield with Room correction and I haven’t run Room Perfect yet. The details in the Lyngdorf manual are rather scant. They really need to employ a technical writer. But with a bit of web surfing it wasn’t an issue. You need a hard wired Ethernet connection which is not an issue for me. I have a Primare 35.2 to install once my 4 ceiling speakers are installed so I have enough channels of amplification, but I am starting to feel I have made a good choice. A pile of money of course, but so what!
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| by Gages |
| Gages |
So I pulled the trigger.
I can confirm Stebbo's comments.
The Aura 2d is pretty close to Trifield. To my ears v the 861, better instrument separation and vocals are also more easily separated from music.
Video sources (Tivo and AppleTV DD5.1) also great.
Web interface is super easy to use and the app is also nice.
Room perfect took a while to run, works well but its a black box.
Inputs super easy to setup (like the Meridian Phantom sources)
All in all a very easy drop in replacement for the 861. Sorry to see her go after 20+ years of amazing service.........
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| by spinaltap |
| spinaltap |
My Daughter and I used to have contrasting views on owning Media.
She works for a well-known publisher. She’s loved physical books since childhood. She loves the look, touch and smell of books. Then again, she strictly streams her favourite music.
Likewise, I used to be resolute that I must own all my physical music and movie media. Eventually, I took the pragmatic approach to music, movie and books - and switched wholesale to streaming.
Every time there’s a format change (SD to HD to UHD), the original SD DVD I purchased years ago is progressively upgraded to the latest format without my having to buy the movie again. When a subsequent new edition of a book is published my existing copy is updated at no additional expense.
I still own 2 Squeezeboxes (in storage), and, like you, I used iPeng to control my media via my iPad.
Time moves on, and I overcame my initial reluctance to buy into Roon. There’s such a vast library of hitherto undiscovered music that I would never have found had I rigidly stayed with LMS.
YMMV
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