Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Thread Like Summary - Mains Cable Alternatives?

One of my Meridian Prime improvements was in replacing the supplied mains cable with Audioquest NRG-X3. In due course, I will upgrade my 210 and 218 with the same C5 derived cable. To my knowledge, it’s the only quality C5 type cable on the market.

Sadly, it wasn’t possible to replace my M6’s mains cable due to the rigid construction of the AQ NRG-X3 allied to constrained access to the M6’s mains input.

Now I own DSP5200SE’s my options for replacing the supplied C13 mains cable is significantly better - from £85 for 2 metres to a stratospheric £7k (!).

What, if any, mains cable have others used to replace their supplied DSP’s mains cable - and what perceived improvement resulted?

Not really. it seems to claim that the mains cable acts as a filter. Much better ways of filtering are available but it seems to ignore the fact that it is the power supply that actually provides power to the amplifier, for example, will have filtering of a much better quality than a cable.

Agree with AndrewPG, not a great explanation, reads like ChatGPT with added marketing BS; the mention of ‘skin effect’ on a 50/60Hz cable raised my eyebrow.

The graph of the different conductors was a bit disingenuous too.

You missed the other two reasons. Most companies can provide you with all sorts of "scientific " proof in white papers and measurements but none of that means a hoot if you can't appreciate the difference. Have you tried any type of tweeks in your system? What is your system comprised of? We can't tell from your signature nor from your contributions to these forums. Maybe if we know what you are basing your opinions on, we can understand if it is real world experience or plain old skepticism.

The question isn’t about marmite. It’s about science. If something sounds different there is a reason. The question is about the reason something sounds different. And about discovering with a double blind test whether something really does sound different or if we are somehow being deceived by other factors.

This assumes that there is any benefit whatsoever. It's certainly not measurable or explainable. That doesn't stop people believing power cables make a difference. Let's not try to establish a "truth" by repeating our own beliefs without qualifying them, i.e. I can't explain and I can't demonstrate in a scientific way. This "truth" doesn't benefit a newcomer, it only provides comfort for those who have already bought the idea or those who sell the idea.

Puritan Audio have good rep. If I wanted to try any more, having done the rounds more the once, I'd try them. For clarity, I don't sell this idea and I haven't bought.

Please don't categorise or try to reduce my own conclusions. I am not a retailer, I don't personally benefit from promoting this unproved, inexplicable phenomenon. I'm unbiased.

I said I've tried, made my own, bought (and re-sold ) expensive cables. So my comments can't be taken with a pinch of salt, or dismissed because you disagree.

Shunyata sent you very expensive cables (loan or to keep?) and you're a retailer. Would you describe yourself as unbiased?

So you claim you can hear the difference, were these double blind tests? Any science involved or did you just "hear" the difference, clearly.

Suggesting my equipment isn't up to it or my ears aren't good enough just about sums up the paucity of your argument.

Take a moment and explain the science behind this phenomenon or just keep chanting the mantra as someone who is far from unbiased by definition. You are in a minority opinion regarding cables and there's good reasons for that. Each to their own, including minorities and the unexplained. Whilst we're on the topic, how do you feel about UFOs?

Have you never asked yourself how this works? No curiosity or desire to understand? The impact on SQ can't actually be measured but if you can't hear it, there's something wrong with your system? Really? Goodness

I am actually aware that In the Fields has tried a variety of the benefits that such after market additions are supposed to deliver. And has plenty of Meridian and other equipment with which to test them. A brief search of posts here will confirm that.

And the difference between a box wine and a fine wine are pretty easy to measure in terms of the production. But you can’t compare apples and oranges.
I still go back to my original post here.
I always wonder with the question of replacing mains cables what about the very cheap mains cable that runs all over the house. I mean, it’s one solid core of copper. And it goes through a consumer unit with micro switches. How does replacing a tiny part of the mains cable chain with a flexible cable that can cost up to £7k make any difference to the sound when the first thing that happens inside a Meridian speaker is yet another fuse and then a big transformer? i just want to understand the science of these expensive mains cables.

So are people saying there actually is no science?
Roger Nichols - sound engineer and solidly scientific- made clear arguments for implementing a balanced power system. It’s easier to do in the States with a 110 volt system. Well, easier in that it’s less dangerous than with 240 volts as we have over here. But his arguments were based on the complete chain of mains delivery. Unless people are replacing every cable in the chain then what we are left with is the proposal that the short mains cable acts as some kind of filter. And if that’s the case, then it can be measured.
And if it’s about filtering, then the filtering inside the speaker power supply will be more efficient for a number of clear, scientific reasons.

And of course the power supply of a particular device like an amplifier or streamer can make a difference. You will see that In the Fields is very aware of that. But the cable? Let’s at least try to explain the science…

Plenty of HHers there listening to his answer. We weren't double blind though...

Shunyata don't have it wrong, there are plenty of people willing to spend good money on something than cannot be explained/proven scientifically.

One rule of note with cables, minimal cost generally equates to minimal benefit. The middle of the road is the best bang per buck. The law of diminishing returns bites fast beyond that level.

Wow, a whole field of straw men...

I think there's a difference between encouraging scepticism (in the absence of evidence or even theory) and "naysayers criticising their use". My recent comments relate to comments which are trying to establish some kind of truth. This is wrong and could result in innocent people assuming that this particular tweak is known to be effective. It isn't. Plenty of tweaks are.

DC power- ripple etc all measurable demonstrable and hearable (e.g. 218 DC input tweak). No serious audiophile spends much time on mains cable, other than it being well constructed etc. from my observation. Retailers and manufacturers are particularly good sources of unbiased information.

What an odd article. Most of those 'misconceptions' I have never heard anyone say before and seemed contrived to create an article. I certainly have never heard anyone describe electricity as water before. The misconceptions about external EMI and manufacturer designed power supplies actually seem like arguments against high end power cables. As to component generated EMI surely all the points the article raises are mitigated by well designed equipment that has a decent power supply and effective shielding/screening.

The article actually makes me even less inclined to believe in the benefits of aftermarket power cable rather than more. Which considering the article originated from a manufacturer of power cables and starts with the premise that aftermarket cables make an obvious improvement to both audio and video is quite an achievement!

Whilst I realise this is not the intent of the article but what it lacks, like pretty much everything else I have read, is a clear definition of the problems that need fixing and an explanation as to how each of those problems are addressed together with a comparison as to why fixing the problem in that particular way is better than fixing it by other means. It would also be nice to see an explanation of why the problem needs fixing in the first place since I am not always convinced that some of the issues being fixed, although they exist, are actually a problem.

My simple uneducated take away from the article is to buy decent equipment and as long as the power cable is properly constructed not to worry about it.

Totally agree.

There is an audiophile fuse that one can buy. It costs £4,200 from Future shop.
And there is a ‘grounding box’. Made of wood. Apparently filled with sand. But of course it must work because it costs £16,500.

It is amazing people will buy this stuff but you can’t stop people wasting money (apparently).

It’s all kind of strange and lots of marketing woven into a story if you ask me. The skineffect remark made me laugh and doubting my technical education but hey, that was a long time ago.
I was kind of curious just like some others in what the Entech really measures.
The meter's speaker projects the amplified demodulated AM FM noise present on the power line under test. A very handy and capable meter designed to show the end user if the power supplied or generated is "clean" or "dirty". Dirty or noisy is undesirable for ANY home or business with amplified systems. This unit tests the cleanliness of the power being used. Clean power is what you'd want in your entertainment system for optimal sound clarity. Before you buy an expensive system make sure it's power line is clean as can be for the best sound quality with this meter."

It’s used here in combination with Shunyata in which Shunyata does make a difrence.

But

It also is used here on ASR post 38 with similar results but might be worth to look into.

I’m not saying that everything written over mains-power is BS but there is al lot of marketing.surrounding it

So trying it would be the only sollution when in doubt.

As I clearly stated: 'just for fun'.

You are correct. Unless you question the answers it tends to be a fast search engine scraper. Especially with a lot of subjective stuff.

If you ask specific question about, as an example, different types of paint that you can use as an adhesion primer. You get back a good accurate answer.

I used it to find out the process of selling my Mothers house after she goes into care, as her Power of Attorney, and what would happen if she dies before the sale is completed. It was excellent for that.

Here are some results using an ENTECH device mentioned above:

1) ENTECH device registering the noise just on the mains circuit



2) Adding a Denali to the socket next to the ENTECH

https://youtube.com/shorts/-txqi0nlxT4

3) Finally, adding the ENTECH to the output of the Denali.

https://youtube.com/shorts/8sJ8OTOkNpI

Same cable to the ENTECH. Same sensitivity.

My room, my sockets, my videos.

Not everyone with a different opinion or experience does so without some objective evidence.

I don't think Andrew has moved the argument; he has clearly stated that the best place to filter out any spurious mains noise is in the power supply.

My position is the same:

There is noise on the mains; fridges and freezers are good (bad?) sources for this.
Mains filters work as designed.
Shielded cables work as designed.
Plugs and cables that meet the relevant standards (BS1363 etc.) work as designed.
If mains filtering and 'special' mains cables can make a difference to the measured performance of an piece of equipment (audio or other), the equipment is poorly designed and fails the EMC requirement (electromagnetic compatibility BS 61000).
Getting rid of the noise on the mains is very very easy (and cheap) once you are on the DC side, simple smoothing capacitors of the correct type and size.

A last thought, if your equipment is susceptible to mains noise, maybe it's power supply is out of specification, usually the capacitors are the culprits.

The current that an amplifier uses to drive loudspeakers comes from the charge held in the reservoir capacitors; the capacitors are (and can only be) charged at 2 x mains frequency (full rectification).

The DC side of a power supply is isolated from the AC by the reservoir of charge in the capacitors; when you design a power supply, you calculate the required capacitance for the voltage and current requirements, if they are inadequate, you will get intermodulation distortion.