Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems NAS drive selection help

I want to get a NAS drive for my Sonos, but even after trying to research the subject I don`t understand the differences in the various products.

Andy recommended the http://www.dBpoweramp.com/ripnas-essentials.htm This seems like a great machine especially with the optional no moving parts SSD drive but at a cost of about $4000 what is the benefit compared to a Buffalo Technology or Iomega or LaCie for $100 on Amazon.com? I do understand that there are differences in the noise of the operating units. But other than that, a bit is a bit, so what is the difference? Would there be a difference in ease of setting up the playlists?

I don`t have a large collection so 100GB is all I need for storage. I do need FLAC.

Hey Dolf, Andy here! My latest plans (still being formulated!) are for:

1) RipNAS software at US$45 (auto-ripping of CD to FLAC and WP3 on inserting a disc)

2) Most likely: a stand-alone TEAC CD/DVD drive with secure abilities (which I gather allows for what you have ripped to be checked for you) at $140 on top of the $45 (so, $185 in total so far)

3) Buy any NAS which has sufficient storage for my needs. I happen to have a spare Tranquil T2e (fanless PC with hifi-style case) which I will probably ship back to Tranquil for upgrade to an Atom motherboard, perhaps 2 new HDDs to allow for auto-backup, 2GB RAM - and a Windows Home Server licence.

If you want the NAS in your hi-fi room, you must go for fanless. If not solid state storage, be sure ths HDD runs quietly. If the NAS can be in another room and sound is not a problem, clearly fan=based cooling is OK.

My understanding of minimum requirements is: RipNAS software (are there cometing products here, anyone?), Windows Home Server (I gather RipNAS runs only on that operating system.

Hope that helps,

Hi Andy,
Have you checked out VortexBox? It sounds very similar to RipNAS, only it's free (or donate if you wish). I have no affiliation with them, I just tried it briefly and it seemed pretty good. They also sell hardware (similar to the DBP box I guess).

Dolf,

Don't know if you you are aware of the Sonos forum - there are many threads about NAS, RAID boxes etc. I think most quality NAS will work. I had a Maxtor which was fine until it died (which entailed a lot of reripping), and now I have a QNap. Once set up, both were pretty much no maintenance. I would choose a cool running and quiet unit.

For under $500, you can basically categorize as follows:

1) External HDD devices like the WD / Lacie etc. These are basically just an external hard drive with a network connection. They work fine, though don't offer functionality like redundancy. Ideally you'd buy two, or keep a copy of all files on your computer too in case it dies.

2) ReadyNAS / QNap / Other Linux RAID NAS devices. These are fullscale mini-servers with print servers, web servers, RAID5/6 redundancy. Capable of running Slimserver should you ever swap to Logitech/Slim/Squeeze.

3) Windows Home Server devices like HP Media Smart, Tranquil, Acer. Essentially the Windows version of (2) running Windows Server 2003 with Home Server additions. Redundancy is available through automatic file duplication to the pool of drives you plug in. Install the Connector software on all your Windows PCs and they will be backed up each night (restore is boot CD, select backup from server. Pretty nice). Can run Slimserver should you switch, and has a host of add-ins for auto-backup to Amazon/Jungle and of cause RipNAS. RipNAS looks nice, but if you already have paid for dBpoweramp and prefer to sit at a desktop/laptop to rip anyway doesn't seem to add much value.

Myself, I've been running the HP Media Smart WHS for 20 months and it has been great. Hot add/swap of drives is nice, though not necessary, and it's a very nice case The fan noise is loud on mine (and not on others, it seems to be a crap shoot) so it sits in another office. I use the JungleDisk addin to offsite backup our photos and docs to Amazon every night, and as well as using file duplication for all files over 2 drives I also use the builtin server backup to backup to a USB drive to store offsite at work. This gives me local redundancy for music on the second drive should the first fail, and also a full offsite backup. Since rips can be recreated, but photos not, the additional backup at Amazon gives peace of mind.

If you are happy using dBpoweramp then any of these would be a solution for you. Though for the price of drives these days, I would always advise on keeping a backup of everything. The WD Green drives are nice and quiet, and reliable, and although just 5400rpm are more than fast enough for serving our 4 Sonos zones simultaneously.

Cheers,
David.

Generally this is true for a big file server. However, if you only had 200 CDs then the Intel 80G X-25M is now just $225 and so with a fanless Atom based NAS can make a completely silent solution. Intel quote writing 20G a day for 5 years before you start to get write failures, so for rips should not be an issue since you'll just fill the drive and then stop writing. For larger collections, it's not cost effective yet.

My piece of advice, which I have written before, but will write it again having just had first hand experience of NAS enclosure failure is...

Don't assume that built in RAID will make your collection safe. Many NAS boxes use file or RAID systems that are proprietary to the particular model. So if the NAS enclosure fails, you will still have great difficulty (or it may be economically impossible) to recover data on your drives.

So when selecting a NAS solution, make sure that a RAID disc can be easily removed and recovered in another device (ie a PC that you own), or buy a spare NAS enclosure, which is what I did very cheaply when my HP Media Vault went end of life.

After returning from the HH2 weekend, my HP Media Vault NAS box failed to boot. I was able to remove the mirrored disc and place it in my spare NAS enclosure and copy the data to my PC. I could not put it direct in my PC as it uses a proprietary version of the ReiserFS disc format, so even if I did have a Linux box, I still would not have been able to read the data. After swapping over the system disc, it transpired that it was not a drive failure, but the enclosure had 'failed'. So my bacon was saved by having the spare identical enclosure. Further investigation on the enclosure tracked the issue down to corruption of the NVRAM, possibly due to the battery backup failing during an extended period of being powered down. A reset bought the NAS box back to life and it is now my spare, so the failure was not catastrophic. But having a spare enclosure, I was able to get back up and running quickly and without risk to my important data, instead of risking the data by performing potentially data threatening diagnostics and recovery options which you don't normally test except in a disaster recovery situation.

Since I work with Enterprise Storage every day I think there has been some good suggestions in this thread:


1. Identify your data:

• Identify what data you can replace easily and with minimum effort (less than 2 hours).
• Identify what data you can not replace easily and would acquire substantial effort/time to replace. (days/weeks/months)

2. Get the right tools for the job

• Even if you just have "a little data" ,data grows, and buying a 2 slot NAS will not only limit you to costly RAID1 but also, you will have to buy another box and manage 2 boxes when you grow out of it.
• If you have data that can be easily replaced in 2 hours then remote replication of that data in case of theft/fire/etc is perhaps not a requierement. Go ahead and only use local storage for this type of data.
• If you have data that will take days/weeks/months or when loosing data is not an option then you NEED offsite replication. This setup should be fairly straightforward and don't buy too cheap products that "almost" works perfectly, they must work automated and unattended or you will not have your data when you need it.

Windows Home Server, WHS was mentioned and has gained some popularity. I don't trust the filesystem one bit as it is using a non-standard duplication and it is microsoft first iteration of this filesystem. BUT I think the remote replication plugin of family photos that one user mentioned was very good thinking. And that will save him if the filesystem breaks down.

The thing is, when we accumulate lots of data with RAW photos, FLAC highrez music, DVD movies, Blu-Ray movies; using an online service to backup our precious files would be the "safest" option but probably not economically viable for TB1+ sizes. So in the meantime we will have to cater for this remote replication ourselves.

What you do is to buy two boxes, for example the QNAP TS-439 Pro, a four slot design with remote replication built in. You put your data on your first NAS and then start replication to your DR-NAS (Disaster Recovery) while at home. After the replication is complete, drive your DR-NAS to a relative or somewhere where it will not get in the way, it could even be your office provided the firewalls do not block the needed port/s.

I don't want to just emphasize one brand or so, check the customer feedback on the devices you are getting, and don't let them get off the hook too easily when it comes to remote replication a simple "should" work is not enough. A good representative will tell you what firewall ports is needed to make remote replication work site-to-site. It's not magic.

I hope I got through some tips to apply for your needs..

Crion - I take on board your point about Windows Home Server ("WHS"). Now, I like the idea of RipNAS (ripping CDs without having to sit at a PC screen) because I don't want a "work-like" PC environment in my media room.

I understand that RipNAS ONLY operates on WHS. Does anyone know of ripping software that operates like RipNAS but runs on Wndows XP?

Windows Home Server did have an issue with data corruption that was fixed some months ago. I don't remember the particular details as HP has apparently decided not to offer their revised home server in Europe so I lost interest.

The WHS bug was fixed in their PowerPack 1 last summer. The drives themselves use regular NTFS and the duplication mechanism just copies the files to the duplication drives so that each drive and file is fully readable by another PC. If your server fails and wont boot, just pull the drive and plug it into another machine (PC/Linux/Mac can all read NTFS) to read the files off.

Do devices like the QNap not let you do a full server backup to a USB drive in a regular format (like ext2fs)?

The biggest mistake people make with RAID1/5/6 is thinking it is a backup, but it's about redundancy. If you delete or modify a file on the RAID, then it is changed/gone just like a regular disc. However if one of the drives dies, you can just replace it and let the array rebuild. You must have a real backup strategy inplace if you want actual backup. That's why I use the WHS server backup to backup my server to an external USB drive (and also backup photos nightly to Amazon/Jungle). Backups for our computers live on the server.

I have a SONOS system and in terms of a NAS I am very happy with the WQestern Digital Shared Space drive whose URL is http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=501

I like this drive for a number of reasons such as no third party software to connect with it, does not conflict with my office's VPN, etc...

I will also echo the above comments that although I do have the drive configured as RAID 5 I still do weekly backups of the entire drive using an external USB drive because in the event of fire, flood, surge, etc. all could be loss...the only thing the RAID 5 protects against is the failure of a drive...

Hope this helps.