Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems HH2 Q&A thread

Questions for HH2 - July 10th

Trifield

1. Trifield Width Settings. Several of us have expressed our inability to detect changes, or only detect very subtle changes, using different Width settings in Trifield. Many of us remember having heard readily discernible changes in the past. We raised this issue in the past and you advised us that there was no change in the code which would lead to this result, and said that you would schedule a listening test as time permitted. Have you had an opportunity to do a listening test to confirm that the Width setting is working as it should, and if so, what were your results?
Do you have any thoughts as to why we may be experiencing this issue?
Is the subtlety or magnitude of the effect of the Width settings affected by the distance between the speakers and/or between the speakers and the listening position, and if so, how?
Do you have any tips for us?....any update on this ?

This multiple part question raised some concern with M -- they are actually going back to the code to validate that (in fact) nothing has changed in the Trifield code. These changes should be noticeable and they want to make sure that an unexpected result is coming out of the Trifield algorithm. For example, Width 0 == Mono.

A Hiker this week tested this and 0 does NOT equal Mono.

2. Trifield width: Have you managed to take a look at the code? I tried Width=0 the other day on my G68 and it was most definitely not mono; should it be?

3. Do they recommend that D5khc, D5200hc and D5500hc be set as Small or Large?? (different answer for each speaker type??)

Do they recommend the same Large or Small for both Music and Movie listening??

4. As the Horizontal Speaker is usually lower than the Front Pair, do they suggest having a different Axis setting for the Centre (possible by turning off the front pair, adjusting the Axis on the Centre and turn back front pair again). Will it have much of an impact

5. If the Centre is set as Small, we assume the e.g. <80Hz goes to the front L&R Pair??

If so, and a Positive or Negative Depth is used, does that mean that those Bass Frequencies will emanate from the Front Pair up to 5ms AFTER the Main Front L&R signals??

6. Adding a Trifield DSP mode to 2-Channel-Movie Layout.----I think folks can see how this could be really handy based on some of the recent threads. If anything, it would be a great tool for tuning. So you could instantly compare Small vs Large Center, or two crossovers etc. By just flipping between Trifield Music Layout and Trifield Movie Layout (suggest Concert Mode for a name).


Multi-Channel questions

7. Could Meridian possibly clarify statements from the CES Q&A with regard to 8 digital input (and consequently MMHR)? The meagre selection of 7.1 content on the market was given as the reason that offering an 8-channel digital input upgrade for the 861/G series “is not a high priority item” in the development chain at this moment in time. This seems to be a perfectly reasonable point, however it was also said in the Q&A that “with respect to Cat5 for the audio signal, both JRS and RH indicate that their listening tests are extensive and that Cat5 via MMHR/SpeakerLink does sound better than coax.”

Ignoring the debate about the lack of 7.1 content, is offering RJ45/MMHR input for the processors not worth perusing sooner rather than later principally on the grounds that they think such a connection delivers superior sound quality?

8. There is a decent and Growing amount of 7.1 Bluray material out there and that 7.1 Material has the POTENTIAL to sound better (for the reasons stated by Roger) than the Processing that Meridian applies to 5.1 material to arrive at 7.1 audio channels.
--The above Two points should ACCELERATE Meridian's efforts to give us an MMHR 8-Channel Input into the G68 / 861 Processors …any comment ?

9. Speakerlink and MMHR - are they interoperable? Both would appear to be multi channel output via CAT5e? Specifically relevant to speakerlink connection on Sooloos - if a processor with MMHR was made available in the future (as the MMHR output of the HD621 would imply), could Sooloos also use the MMHR interface on a processor via its speakerlink output? If not, can you link Sooloos to a Meridian processor via CAT5e for audio transmission in some other way?

10. M's view on the Dolby height channel format

11. Confirm that the G98 will out multi-channel PCM over HDMI. This is what the manual suggests but recent posters on HH seem to suggest that it doesn`t work.


Sooloos

12. Sound Quality (several questions all asking the same)

Is there an appreciable difference in quality with a music server (say Sooloos) compared to a spinner for std CD`s (say G91), both going into my G68?

Assuming a bit-perfect rip, and hence essentially the same source data, is there any logical/practical reason why the Sooloos system as a source component (feeding identical DSP 2-channel speakers) should not reach the heights of pure sound quality achieved by the 808.2? If not, then (broadly) why not? If yes, then has this level of performance (in Sooloos) been reached already? If not yet, then at what stage in the future development of Sooloos do you predict this particular rubicon will be crossed?!

Should all future network players be of reference standard e.g. like the 808.2 or should be expect different models to be ranked in performance like G08 vs 808?

With the understanding that there are significant differences in music servers in respect to user friendliness, are there appreciable differences in sound quality, say Sooloos v.s. Sonos?

13. How ‘open` is the Sooloos system. For instance, could we utilise our existing NAS boxes or do we have to use the Sooloos Twin Store products

14. Can the Control:10 be used as a standalone client/server in its own right or does it need a separate storage unit

15. What is the minimum you require to buy in to the Sooloos system?
What is a recommended upgrade path if you can`t afford the full system on day 1?

16. The world is already on the way to downloaded, non-physical media. No need for disc spinners; all you need is network storage, an M-Squeezebox, and DSP speakers. M presumably agree hence the Sooloos purchase.
Any thoughts on this in general, and in particular on going even simpler and building Sooloos receivers into the speakers?


Apodizing

17. Is it worthwhile to pursue some way to insert a HD621 between a music server and G68 to get the apodizing filters?

18. With G98, H621, G68, DSP 7200, how do I maximise the benefits of the apodising in the HD621 and 7200`s, does it matter if you apodise more than once.

19. If you have an HD621, G98 and DSP5200 (or DSP7200) with the filters what is the optimum set up for 2 channel and 5.1 channel material
eg set HS=N in the G68 and rely on the speakers for upsampling or feed the signal from the G98 as PCM via HDMI and through the HD621 or...

20. Confirmation of apodising filters for the G68 and ideally an indication of when. I think that they have already said yes but the comments from Seattle have confused things.

21. Ditto apodising filters for the DSP3100.


Speaker/System setup and optimisation and general questions (much may be covered by the tutorial)

22. Has there been any success in reducing the power consumption, specifically the standby consumption, of later firmware or updated (.2) versions of the classic Meridian lineup of speakers, CD/ DVD players and processors? It is not uncommon to find standby currents of less than 1W for some consumer items that on previous versions were consuming >10W in standby. A typical Meridian setup of 5 x DSP`s, 1 Sub, processor and source soon adds up to well over 120W standby current.

23. How to setup DSP speakers (from Jaco who just ordered 7) &#61514;

24. What time does the factory shop open and does it take credit card?

25. Yet another plea for any/more/better documentation on the web. In the Q+As Bob said everything needed to know about tweaking speakers is in the Dsp6000 manual. If someone's just bought 5200s they may not think of looking there!

26. How do Meridian see the HD video market developing? I am interested to hear whether they think we will be downloading video in the same way as we download music and their views on the likely longevity of Bluray. I would not be asking them about their specific involvement or planned new products but how do they see the market evolving.

27. Charles Hansen? Ayre Acoustics….do you guys ever meet and chat?

28. M.R.C. problems with low readings from mics/S.P.M.?...anything in development that can help with this ?

29. When will Meridian 'personally' re-engage with their dealers? For example, in the West Midlands I only have one franchised dealer network to call upon. Their declared USP in the past was that they were one of the so-called premier dealers, due to the high volume of stock that they carried. However, when I asked them about the Meridian ex-dem stock sale, they didn't know anything about it. I had to contact a Meridian dealer in Norfolk to get authoritative information (with shipping costs being prohibitive). Then when I later asked them about the current trade-in program, they didn't know anything about that either (a month after it was initially announced). I happened to come across the owner at one of the branches, and asked him about the trade-in deals (which he knew nothing about). Now, Meridian can't be blamed for how often dealers check their email messages; but while I was there he trawled through months of messages on their system to find what I was looking for (including information on Meridian price increases that they were oblivious of). I was advised that at one time they regularly had visits from a Meridian rep (they called him their 'Mr. Meridian'), but since he was made redundant some time ago the dealer hasn't had any personal contact with Meridian.

How can Meridian, therefore, hope to maintain any meaningful relationship with existing/potential customers if they don't nurture the bridge with the very dealers that such potential/existing customers rely on in formulating their purchasing decisions?

30. I've read some very positive reports on the Arcam AVR600. This utilises 'Class G' amplification: a combination of AB Class (for the first 10 watts) and Class D amplification. This supposedly retains the high efficiency of Class D (while eliminating RF radiation) and the good music quality available with Class AB. Is there scope for Meridian to update the G95 to accommodate the same method of amplification? If not, why?

31. How likely is it that Meridian will incorporate Blu-ray disc spinners in their products in the near future, and if so, what time scale are we talking about?

32. - What are common errors that customers / installers make ...that naturally no HH would make ;-) ... and how to fix

33. Explain apparent change of track re: decoding -pros & cons - e.g. Meridian was the one that used to have best decoding and now direction seems to be to decode at source and throw in a few filters.
Now about those filters... Are they just the tone controls for the 2000s?

34. What are expectations of industry futures - not future product plans, but visions of where will be in 5 or 10 years, e.g. more height speakers. dozens of surround formats - 'wireless speakerlink' etc ...

35. product development lifecycle at Meridian, for example something like HD621, development / prototype / testing - How is it done / timeframes?

36. upgrades/ new products for DAB reception (currently my set up of G91 plus DSP 5500s, bought new in 2004 is AM/FM only).

37. Can you comment on the rationale for the fourth HD621 SPDIF output? Were you simply keeping options open?

38. HD621: You've suggested that manual control over Music/Movie/2/6 might be possible on a per-source basis. Please would you implement this?

39. Would it be possible to control up or downsampling on a per-source basis in the HD621? (This is a very specific application, but I would like to downsample an upsampling source so that my G68 can apodize it downstream in the future). If not, at the very least, can up/downsampling be controlled (globally) via RS232?

40. Which non-current 24/96 DSP loudspeakers upsample? DSP5000? DSP6000? DSP7000? DSP33?

41. Clarification on 18-bit loudspeakers: What is the optimal bit-depth to send to these 22-bit capable 'speakers? What bit-rates do Meridian processors (past and present) send to 18-bit 'speakers? This is relevant for use of 18-bitters with a 518. I recall that the 565 had 22-bit output capability at one point.

42. The 568 required the user to specify input bit-depth; the G6x and 861v4 do not. In the CES 08 Q&A you said that (a) bit depth is "hard to determine in real time" and (b) "it is not important for the processor to know this information unless the LSBs are used to carry non-audio signalling (e.g. buried data or HDCD)". Why is it not important? How is resolution enhancement performed in the processor if it doesn't know the incoming bit-depth?

43. Why does Meridian consider HDCD to be a bad solution? Is it worse than DSD, for instance?

44. You said you would get back to us on the possibility of direct (remote/RS232) access to switch Music/Movie/2/6 modes in the processors. Any update?

45. A more general follow-up from a specific Trifield question: Would it be possible to allow users to specify the bass management layout when creating custom DSP presets? The parameter must already exist in MConfig (and be hidden) as bass management layout settings are preserved when copying an existing preset.

46. De-jittering aside, is there any value in using a 518 prior to an F80 for resolution enhancement purposes or does the F80 really not need outside assistance in this area.

47. What is the "Bass-heavy" bass management setting for?

48. Can we get 518-like digital gain for digital sources (such as satellite) which do not make use of the full dynamic range?

49. how flexible the HD621 can be in it's configuration - spec sheet implies that it can be run into a normal 44.1/48kHz DAC without smartlink yet a phone call to Meridian suggested otherwise. That is, can I use an HD621 to clean up jitter etc prior to a 563 DAC - currently getting severe crackling from 48kHz sources to a 563 and looking for an interim solution prior to changing out whole audio chain.

50. A number of people (HHs have a Lumagen XE video processor - I understand that currently the XE and the HD621 do not play nice together - are Meridian working on a fix (with Lumagen as appropriate)?

51. Question re: 7200 vs on-walls & other recommendations for modest sized rooms. The issue being not the size of room per se, rather the space vs layout compromises needed in these type of rooms - sofa back to brick wall and width of room 11.5 feet - there are thousands to rooms like this and many people are going for B&O - what is Meridian's answer? I currently use D60s in this environment. What is the recommendation from HQ ? Could on-walls be better?

awesome summary VK!

I've asked Bob the following question which I didn't have the opportunity to get answered:

The DSP8k has been around for a very long time (compare to other manufacturers model line-up).
What has been the enhancements made to the 8k (except signal processing) since its launch:
- Cabinetery
- Drivers

This is particularly relevant since we've seen an "explosion" of new technology in the loudspeaker manufacturing business in the last 10 years, with a huge amount of esoteric materials used for drivers (ceramic, diamond, beryllium,etc...) as well as cabinetery.

It seems the USB connection in the G68 is of the fairly basic type and not asynchronous, is there any plan to support 24/96k via Async-USB and/or firewire for Audio?

M needs to provide a high quality USB input, either into an 800 or even better directly into an 861, with apodizing, for audio material. Computer based audio isn't just "coming", it's already here. Sooloos is great, but a large fraction of M buyers will never own a Sooloos system. What M's doing now would be akin to saying "we won't provide a SPDIF input, you have to buy our CD transport" back in the days when CD was coming on strong.

Great work VK !! Really appreciate the effort. I see where the HTML question came from

Actually, this was a cut and paste from the questions that Nick compiled!!! But I'll take the credit if you want me too.

VK. Are there answers somewhere in there or is that just the question sheet posted up that Nick sent to Meridian with no answers as yet?

Ian, it's the latter but VK can have all the credit for wrestling UBB to get it posted in here

VK...how do you want to go about inserting answers to it? There were some already given which we can easily add. Perhaps we PM our versions to you and you edit into the post above ? Would that work ?

I think we should avoid a) many answers appearing in pages of thread below, b) Bob et al wasting any time on Q's that were dealt with already.

Thoughts ?

Agreed. PM me and I'll insert answers. No idea how M will handle the rest of the questions though.

Bob assured us on the day that Meridian would respond to the questions raised via this forum in less than six months ;-)