Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems 8Ks vs Magico Minis (Split From Do you use CD Poll thread)

Which is I why I have twice asked Meridian Fraz what equipment he uses. The first time he now admits he just made up components. The second time he ignored me. I can't figure out why he bought a G68 (if he actually did) if he prefers two channel to multi-channel and thinks both upsampling and DSP processing adversley affect the sound. Given his preferences, I would have thought he would have opted for a high-end analog preamp. Certainly that is a purist approach. If he wants to do home theater in addition to two channel, I think the Theta Casablanca III with an emphasis on its pure analog stages and discrete multi-channel analog (Six Shooter) may be a better fit.

I split this off. Probably not a perfect split.

Keep it civil (as it mostly has been) or I'll have to close it.

If buying hifi was about shop demos I would never have bought a Meridian system
You can only seriously know what you have in your own room
The room is the most important and difficult device in the chain
That this M.Fan makes judgements on demos which he does not even own defeats his arguements for me.
The Magicos look v interesting
There is always some genius manufacturing aircraft grade Kryptonite or the like.
What any company needs is legs
This M has
My D6KS spent longer in the Stereophile RC list than any other speaker
That was 17 yrs ago and still they are supported by M.
I have no doubts of Mini monitors, LS3/5A image very well close field
So Im sure the Magicos can 20 years after them.
But they cannot compare with M 8Ks.....
As for not appreciating the wonder of upsampling and Trifield how would he know???
Roger

If he has a G68, then he could easily toggle HS=Y/HS=N to make a comparison of upsampling on/off. Whatever his conclusions are, if they are based on actual listening tests, they are valid for him in his listening room with his setup.

As for Trifield, I don't know what his setup is so I don't know if he has actually tried Trifield or he doesn't like it because he is opposed to DSP in general. Several Hitchhikers have expressed a preference for Direct/Stereo over Trifield, particularly owners of DSP8000s. I may be mistaken, but I don't think we have anyone on the forum who has three DSP8000s across the front, so the use of a different center channel speaker may be the reason. Trifield is an option not a panacea.

What I don't get about the Magico Minis is how they can cost 20,000 dollars with stands. There's not much substantive difference in any respect between them and a pair of Jamo Concert 8s, is there? I doubt very much they measure as well as a pair of Kef Reference 201s as well.

Basically a rip off. Regardless of how they sound.

Actually Mini II's are $32,000.00 a pair for passive "bookshelf" speaker (with stands of course).

http://www.goodwinshighend.com/speaker.htm

There is also an interesting comment on their site here regarding the V3's

http://www.magico.net/?d=03_Products/02_V3/3.html

I'd be curious how they compare to 3100's on stands in the middle of nice room.

There are some advantages to small speakers and comparing a full range 8000 vs mini monitors is apples and oranges.

This not an attack on Mr Franz it's just that you need to look at the whole picture. And you are on a site that has a lot of folks that favor Meridians solutions and many have carefully invested their money. It's not the best way to introduce yourself saying we wasted our money on Meridian speakers and processing. You could have better presented your own personal experiences with critizing other folks choices and built up some credibility as member first. Your tone has improved a great deal in your later defense of your opinion posts.

I think once you are really happy with a brand and trust them you tend to stick with them.

Frank
I agree, Trifield is a very desirable option to have and it is not something I would willingly give up, even though (as I stated above) IMHO it does not work for my ears on all material

I've formed this opinion after 3 years of running an 861 into a 3 by 6k front trio and then the last eight years into a 3 by D8k front trio

If you were to look back thru the threads down thru the years, you will see that I first started advocating an Exact front trio many years ago and I would stick with that recommendation for the most successful implementation of Trifield as well as for Discrete Multi-Channel music material. As a result, I've slightly compromised my Screen height position, but it is something I would willingly do again in order to avail of the benefits of a Centre match speaker

When Trifield "works" to my ears, it is truly spectacular and I would not give it up for the world. However, I don't use it with all material. Again I would emphasise that IMHO, the reasons for choosing Trifield over Direct (and vice versa) on my system are not Night and Day. There are just subtleties

As regards running an exact front trio, IIRC both Roger and George (Mr. Meridian) run a D6k front trio; JerryL runs a D8k front pair with a vertical D7k centre and Philip Frangos had successful trials using a D8k front trio. Likewise Mark H (I think) has a Matched front trio as does VK and a number of others on this forum

Matched fronts is the way to go IMHO, if it can be done, even though it does involve Screen (as well as pocket & wife) compromises!!

For that asking price, I would much rather have the TAD CR-1 Monitors.

But they don't use carbon nanotubes for the speaker cones. Since that sounds really high-tech, it must be better.

I've heard the Mini (both versions) in NYC and other locations as well as the V3, M5 and Ultimates (the Ultimates are something to behold, never mind listen to!!!)

I would have to say that the Mini is a spectacularly built speaker offering performance quite a notch above the D3100's (as they should)

The Magico range offers extremely high levels of performance throughout the range, but their Treble forward characteristic is something that will appeal to many but not as much to me, as I prefer a more "balanced" approach that does not emphasize any particular performance aspect

Do the Magico's sound different to the Meridian range??..........Yes and by quite some way

Could I happily live with a Pair of Mini's or V3's??...........Definitely

Are Any of the Magico's (including the Ultimates) "Vastly Superior" to the Meridian range??..........Definitely Not (unless Treble and Upper Mid performance on certain Vocals and Instruments is the most primary concern)

As I've said before, it is the comments on "Vast Superiority"; or that Upsampling adds to or sounds worse than non-Upsampled and the other, generally negative initial comments from our new member that I took exception to

At this end of the spectrum, there can be major sound DIFFERENCES or CHARACTERISTICS, but taken as an overall Performance Package, there are only Subtle "Advantages" or "Disadvantages" between the various approaches of different manufacturers and we are each free to select the Characteristic Performance Set that appeals most to us. Dictating that our choice is the only correct one for everyone else (and then indicating everyone else must be deluded or technically challenged), is not something that should have its place here IMHO

Perhaps if the more tempered approach recently taken on by our new member had been there from the outset, then there may have been less issues

But it doesn't cost boatloads of $$$ to make a speaker more treble forward. If they are indeed that much more forward than say 3100's I would be curious how they would compare to something like a B&W N805. Like you said it's trade-offs, balance and personal choice.

"Perhaps if the more tempered approach recently taken on by our new member had been there from the outset, then there may have been less issues"

So essentially you are blaming me for your inability to maturely provide an alternative point of view? I'm not taking a more tempered approach. I'm simply refusing to respond in kind to the vitriol of those who obviously took great offense to my views.

To summarize and stay on topic:

- When I moved from disc spinners to servers, my system performance shot upwards a great deal. The improvement is so great that I have stopped using SSP on the G68. Two channel now provides a superior, far more realistic listening experience than Meridian's simulations of 3D to me.

- I cannot tell the difference between servers when fed through my G68. I have serious doubts that Meridian can do anything with Sooloos that will surpass the sound performance of any other bit-perfect server fed through my G68.

- As with Meridian's attempts to simulate a 3D soundfield, I do not think that they are a purist company. Given this, I have serious concerns that what may sound pleasurable is not actually accurate with Meridian sources.

- Upsampled 16bit recordings on my G68 sound softer, and not necessarily clearer or of higher resolution. I do wonder what is really being done when Meridian speaks of resolution enhancement, and I have provided my questions about it.

- I think that Meridian speakers are excellent, but I do not think that they are doing anything that cannot be achieved or surpassed with separates. Revel Salons, some Genesis speakers, I could go on. There are passive speakers that are as good as or superior to the 8000s to me.

- I think that the Magico Mini V2 is vastly superior to everything I've heard in terms of realism. They are the only speaker where I can say that if I was blindfolded I might have thought that a real saxophonist was in the room. To me they do something in terms of realism that no other speaker has been able to do. I take no offense and provide no vitriol to those who think that they could not be vastly superior, or superior at all. These are subjective comments. RHurley states, "I would be extremely reluctant to say that ANY Meridian Speaker or Component offers "Vast" performance differences over decent �500 BookShelf speakers..." I respectfully disagree. The 8000s are vastly superior to �500 speakers in my listening experience. As an aside, I sincerely doubt that I would have been attacked for claiming ad-nauseam that the 8000s were vastly superior to anything I've heard, despite the fact that "apparently" such a comment would have been just as absurd.

For the record:

Frank - The questions you are now asking or claiming I did not respond to are all answered on the first two pages of this thread. I own a G68, and I love it. I won't comment on my other equipment, because it is an irrelevant distraction. At least to me it was a blatant joke that I'd run a G68 in front of Jamo speakers and an Onkyo amp. I was jokingly trying to make the point about the irrelevance of the other equipment to my points - not being dishonest. To add to those previous comments, I bought a G68 because I fell in love with Meridian SSP for 2ch material and because they provided the best surround sound for films. The G68 today meets all of my needs except for the lack of HDMI. But this is through 2ch instead of Trifield/Music modes for music with upsampling turned off.

Roger - Shop demos serve a critical and practical purpose. A dealer is supposed to be presenting the equipment in the best manner possible for the simple reason that they are trying to convince us to part with a great deal of money. What that gear sounds like in your home is a separate matter, but that in door demo is supposed to give you a very good idea of what the maximum potential for the equipment being sold is. If you can find the kind of dealer willing to lend you whatever you want in your home before you buy, then that is great. The majority however are not so flexible. The demo for the Minis was vastly superior to anything I've heard. It is utterly illogical to me that you would dismiss the idea of in-store demos where you can at least hear speaker x, and then claim without even hearing the Minis that they cannot compare to the M8Ks. Oh well.

George - Please show me where I claimed that others wasted their money on Meridian speakers and processing. I have carefully invested my money in both Meridian and non-Meridian gear. Did I get upset when I heard something vastly superior to my own system? I fail to see the justification for the vitriolic responses. Meridian's brochures state, "Meridian invented DSP loudspeakers over 15 years ago. Nothing better reveals the feeling and emotion of your music library than a Meridian digital
loudspeaker system." I don't own Meridian DSPs, and I disagree that nothing better reveals the feeling and emotion of my music library. Is this claim any more offensive than my claim that the Minis are vastly superior to everything I've heard? Can I start sending hatemail to Bob Stuart?

I would not have believed that the Minis can do what I heard them do. I'm totally fine with anyone who thinks that it is impossible for them to be vastly superior or worth the $30k they now cost. All I can suggest is that you might want to demo them for yourself.