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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,950 Likes: 19
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,950 Likes: 19 |
DSP Loudspeakers:
Q: Are there plans to bring the apodizing filters into the DSP8000? Can DSP8000 owners expect a SpeakerLink upgrade? Q: The "time-aligned" drivers/woofers in the DSP7200, would that be impossible to incorporate for the DSP8k in a software patch?
JK Sez: The DSP8000 has had a running production change replacing the input panel with the new SpeakerLink module. This is evidenced by the appearance of these DSP8000s on the CEDIA show floor.
A: The latest production DSP8000 (with SpeakerLink) has all these improvements. A software update for all DSP loudspeakers is currently targeted for delivery by year`s end, some will be out sooner. This will include all of the software features first introduced in DSP7200. A hardware upgrade to the DSP8000 electronics pack would be very expensive and is not immediately offered to existing owners. The main benefit is the sound lift that comes from balanced drive and an improved FIFO. The software update in any DSP8000 should get around 75% of the performance lift of the latest revision of the DSP8000. Thanks John & Bob Long read, very interesting. Just one question regarding above. Which bits are hardware and which is implemented only in firmware. Speakerlink is obvious, but what about the new filters, or is it, without extra hardware, you get 75% of the performance benefit that an optimal setup would give?
Last edited by Ian; 2008-09-15 17:36.
Meridian owner since 1992 Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, Roon (ROCK 8Gi5 NUC), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. 200/203, various Sonos (via Roon).
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,653 Likes: 1
Working on the ultimate question
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Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,653 Likes: 1 |
2) I think Bob was referring to lossless codecs disappearing. If I read it right, the cost of putting a lossless PCM m/channel soundtrack on the BRD is not great. It's cheaper for the studios too; Dolby and DTS lose out (and possibly Meridian if it still has a royalty stream from MLP/TrueHD). Ditching even lossless PCM would be truly awful. Yes, another re-read and I suspect you are right. The downside of *only* including PCM, rather than a lossless compression, though is that it eats up space which could be given to video... for that reason I'd hope lossless codecs continue to be used... Mark
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,467 Likes: 1
Working on the ultimate question
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Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,467 Likes: 1 |
Fabulous job John, many thanks!
Speed of M response suggests they recognize the fan base is a little grumpy, and while I cannot promise that I will not engage in some grousing in the months ahead, it is hard to argue with any of Bob's logic in the answers to our questions. And while we may be willing to fritter away our hard-earned cash on questionable upgrades, clearly M is not.
Clearly the ability to handle HDMI is coming - hopefully 8 channel input as well - and I have little doubt that the solution will be well-thought-out.
Comments on the current state of Bluray players are interesting (as well as Hollywood's view of the timing of sucess). Really do want to get a new player, but perhaps limping along with the 1st gen Sony is good enough for now.
Simon
Last edited by Simon; 2008-09-15 13:15.
My Kit: 861v8+ID41, 800v4, UHD722, MD600, MS600, MS200, Oppo BDP-203, Genesis 201, Genesis 350 SE, Genesis S4-8 Sub, BG 520i, VTL MB450 II, Krell Showcase 7, Genesis 928 Subs, Danley DTS10 sub, SVS Ultra 16 subs.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 526 |
Many thanks to John and Bob! The downside of *only* including PCM, rather than a lossless compression, though is that it eats up space which could be given to video... for that reason I'd hope lossless codecs continue to be used... I suspect they will be. I think the majority get that, in order to try and coax people into upgrading they simply have to sell the format on both its visual and sonic superiority over DVD, along with all the special feature “enhancements” they like to babble on about. Right now we`ve got every major studio bar one (Warner Brothers and soon New Line now that WB have swallowed them whole) consistently using a lossless codec on all their releases. Sony, The Weinstein Co and Paramount/Dreamworks favour TrueHD on everything. Fox/MGM, Lionsgate and Universal favour DTS HD Master Audio. Criterion are going with DTS HD MA for multi-channel mixes and PCM for mono/stereo presentations and a lot of the smaller and independent distributors are providing lossless too. Disney straddle between PCM and Dolby TrueHD (appearing to use the latter when they might be concerned about PCM robbing the image and special features of too much capacity and bandwdith. They will likely "do a Sony" and eventually move on form PCM to TrueHD entirely). If all studios were acting like Warner, i.e being very selective about what titles get lossless audio (and constantly making their tracks 16bit like Warner always do, even if a master was 24bit) then I'd be more concerned about how serious a future lossless audio presentation had. Right now, the vast majority of distributors are treating it as an essential part of their product.
Last edited by DanielB; 2008-09-15 13:53.
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Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 416 |
Thanks for being the point man and doing the work John.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88
Don't Panic!
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Don't Panic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88 |
vk: won't the filter at the speaker stage be applied in the speaker post processor upsampling? No, because the apodizing occurs during the upsampling. Don't worry; I re-read Bob's quote and apodizing filters for the processors are definitely coming!  The apodizing process occurs wherever the upsampling happens (as long as the upsampler has that function). To date this is offered in players and ‘speakers but it will eventually be rolled out through the range - there is a lot of work and testing involved. Everything else being equal, it is best to upsample earlier because the benefits accrue to the downstream processors and the sooner you transition to MHR the lower the jitter in the end.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,653 Likes: 1
Working on the ultimate question
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Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,653 Likes: 1 |
I'll say it again - it's incredible that my 10 year old kit is getting upgraded to sound better than ever (and for free!) And it's encouraging that Meridian are continuing to push the envelope with digital (cf Apodizing Filter). A pat on the back for all of us, I reckon, for choosing the best company to supply our kit  Mark
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,816 Likes: 87
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,816 Likes: 87 |
Great stuff.....Bob, John and the gang.....many thanks for the time you put into this. I'll have to have a re-read later for some comments ...damn this day-job !!! Very interesting....
Rgds, Nick
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88
Don't Panic!
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Don't Panic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88 |
Interesting comment. I missed this first time around. When audio must arrive over HDMI we hope to offer a solution which is better, cheaper and friendlier to both new and existing customers. Edit: And is this the first admission of a solution?  There will be a way to feed HDMI audio into the processors, details are not releasable.
Last edited by VirusKiller; 2008-09-15 14:44.
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Joined: May 2000
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Great Green Arkleseizure
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Great Green Arkleseizure
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,534 |
I am still processing the content but want to say first off that Bob is to be given a big thumbs up for responding so quickly. Thanks go to John as well.
561, DSP5500s, DSP5000C, analog sides and rears
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 8,364 Likes: 14
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 8,364 Likes: 14 |
I think we all take it for granted sometimes in what Meridian does for it's customers. Keep the faith they won't let us down.
Thanks again JK for the great work.
- Fiddler (IMHO)
If you think listening to music is fun, try learning an instrument. HT: G61RSL, 4x5K, 5.5KHC, 2xSC6000, Transporter, HD621, Philips BDP7501 4K, Tivo, 65" LG OLED 4K C6 Computer: Foobar2000, 5K, Mojo, HiFiMan HE1000 V2
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88
Don't Panic!
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Don't Panic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88 |
I think we all take it for granted sometimes in what Meridian does for it's customers. Keep the faith they won't let us down.
Thanks again JK for the great work. I echo these sentiments entirely, although I do feel that M could help itself with a little pro-active communication. Bob's pre-amble about HDMI would be perfect fodder for a blog.
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