Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems The one of MANY HD-DVD threads (No bashing Blu-Ray)

Also roughly coincides with a small Xbox price drop in the US and now in Europe. It's interesting, but I wonder who is actually buying all these Blu-Ray discs. Is it the PS3 owners or not?

I think, form looking at sales figures, that it`s a fairly healthy mix with regard to who is buying what on Blu-Ray. There`s the “PS3 demographic” argument but very high sales of Planet Earth and even recently IMAX: Blu Planet rather skew this argument. PS3 being the reason for Blu-ray dominating software sales in the interim can hardly be Paramount`s excuse for siding with HD DVD now since Paramount cited the PS3 as a chief factor in their deciding to turn neutral back in 2005.

What`s particularly interesting with Blu-Ray sales is that they`re sustained well over time. Where a new title might see a significant drop in its second or third week of sale on HD DVD, there are a good number of titles showing continued strength on Blu weeks, even months in the case of titles like Pirates, Blu Planet, Casino Royale…etc after release. So far I think the PS3 is exceeding in the job it was meant to do for Blu-ray. It`s boosted awareness and uptake of discs, which in turn has no doubt fuelled uptake of standalone players (Sony`s cheapest model apparently sells very well). Sales figures seem to somewhat mirror DVDs sales figures from its 97-98 inception year as well.

All this money being thrown about shows that at least one side is very serious about the future of HD (or it's a desperate last gambit) For those of us already adopting it means the future still looks like an HD one...

As summer progressed I feel it became rather evident that HD DVDs best tactic was to simply "survive" in order to protect investment and patents, and this tactic was undertaken by drastic cost cutting of hardware with the five-free movies bundle and Universal churning out catalogue releases at speed. The format clearly was looking to be in less and less of a position to achieve market dominance (something which may still not change even with Paramount/Dreamworks on its side).

In feeling as if their best chance of a longer term existence lay in a dual format environment then by paying for Paramount's exclusivity the HD DVD camp have pretty much assured themselves of that future, unless the majority of retailers opted to exert their power (which I am not even sure they're aware they have) and made the decision to stock one format and one format only for the sake of the consumer and the long term future of a hi def media format. If retailers and consumers were confused before, then now things are likely to be even worse and the split between studios and the formats is now great enough to really force people into buying both or neither format at all. Honestly, no amount of dual format players is going to solve that problem because the longer this goes on for, the less likely people are to buy into any HD format, and in turn the less likely studios and smaller distributors are to release a larger and more diverse range of content.

All this nonsense does nothing for me other than to ensure I just continue to sit this out and watch from the sidelines. I've genuinely no desire to humour both parties in buying and supporting two seperate formats. I'll always be furious at them for having the audacity to allow this state of affairs to occur in the first place.

One of three things will get me into HD:

1. SD/HD combo discs
2. Meridian coming up with a decent dual format player (and I can justify its cost) with DVD-A support.
3. A cheap dual format DVD/HD recorder for my HDV tapes. Or possibly a PC burner.

With #1, I am likely to start buying HD software before I buy hardware - I only want to buy software once. As I have other SD DVD sources that I regularly use, im not going to make these obsolete by buying HD only media - even if this means that there is a small premium to pay for this option.

I have enough boxes sitting under my TV and I don't want any more. Infact, I would like to reduce the number. Im certainly not going to buy one box for HD-DVD and one box for blu-ray - even if they are disguised as games consoles.

This announcement only goes to backup my feelings over the last few months. Triple format (SD/HD-DVD/blu-ray) is the way to go.

Dont really see what all the fuss is about , Bd may have a 2-1 lead in sales but with all those studios and all those extra gigabytes maybe the lead should have been bigger at this stage in Paramount's opinion anyway .

I think from the moment 2 formats were released , we were all more or less doomed to needless expense and distress.

As Ian says , maybe Sd/Hd/Bd isnt the choice you'd like but it seems the smart play if you want to get back to a stress-free movie laden life

Personally , I jumped into Hd-DVD because the SQ/PQ and Region Freedom appealed to me but I wouldn't insult the members here or anywhere else by indulging in any gloating as a result of this announcement. As with all wars , it's bloody stupid and should have been avoided . This is just another complication .

~M~

P.S. Havent seen it yet but very much looking forward to HD 'Transformers'

Anyone using v2.3 firmware on their A1 or XA1? Over on the Lumagen forum, someone's reported that it breaks getting 4:2:2 via EDID.

Not me - I saw the original problem reports with 2.3 and avoided it...

Mark

Interesting: Msoft response to recent events;
Well thought out and verbalized I thought. Kudos to Msoft...
Wouldn't be marvelous if we could take the best from both formats...

_____________________________________________________
From the Home Theatre Forum:

Hello everyone,

My name is Kevin Collins and I have worked for Microsoft for the last 14 years working on database technology (Jet and SQL Mobile). I have been involved in HD DVD for almost three years; from the HD DVD Video specification process in the DVD Forum to current promotion of HD DVD features. I met a lot of you with the HTF chat in January of this year and hope to do another chat when my schedule permits to have more ongoing discussions. For those that don`t know me, I am a home theater enthusiast. Starting in 1992 I had a Pioneer laser disc player, 1994 I had a Pioneer Elite 51” RPTV, in 1997 I had the Sony DVD player. In 1999 I moved to watching DVD`s on a HTPC on a Sony G70 on a 8ft wide Stewart Filmscreen Studio Tek 130 screen and currently view HD content on a Marantz 1080P DLP PJ with BOTH formats on a Stewart Filmscreen Gray Hawk RS screen. So, even though I work at Microsoft, I have been a home theater enthusiast well before I started on HD DVD at Microsoft.

At any rate, since I am constantly traveling for HD DVD I haven't had time to become active on this forum. I`m currently on vacation but something has come up that even my wife hasn`t been able to prevent me from responding to. It has to do with posts regarding why and how Microsoft supports HD DVD. Here is an example of what I am referring to:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html#dp
“8/20/07 -- Well... the high-definition format war just got more confusing for consumers, and you can thank the hubris of the folks at Microsoft for it. Their HD-DVD format (because I'm sorry, can anyone really say it still belongs to Toshiba at this point?) badly needed a shot in the arm going into the holiday season, and just got it thanks to suitcases full of cash from the Microsoft camp”

I want to go on the record stating that Microsoft did not provide any financial incentives to Paramount/Dreamworks recent decision to support HD DVD. This type of “reporting” amazes me and I challenge anyone to provide proof around these statements. They are unfounded and inaccurate.

I`m not writing this to debate opinions on why one format will or will not prevail. I`m a writing this to provide some factual information on why and how Microsoft supports HD DVD to hopefully put to rest some of the incorrect information I see online.

Originally Microsoft supported BOTH formats, then two CES`s ago, Microsoft changed to only supporting HD DVD for the following three reasons:
1) Mandatory Managed copy. BD has since also supported this and we are all waiting on the “final agreement” to be completed from AACS.
2) Guaranteed hardware features on ALL HD DVD players. The mandatory features here being persistent storage, secondary video decoder and networking. Microsoft simply believes, as do the studios, including Disney, that interactivity is a reason for consumers to move from DVD. Please reference this document for reasons that the Warner Home Video and Disney put together in the DVD Forum: http://www.dvdforum.org/images/Requi...0HD%20DVD%20Vi deo%20Application-July2005.pdf. Warner Home Video proves this out by releasing different features in 300 and Blood Diamond (networking - sharing scenes with friends and PIP) and Paramount did it with MI:3 last year with PIP only in the HD DVD version.
3) Cheaper, higher yield and greater availability of replication. A perfect case point for this is the European market where there are a multitude of HD DVD titles that are only available from the BD studios in the US. The reason for this? Cheaper replication costs and the ability to use local replicators to produce discs. BD50 discs are only produced at two plants in the world (Terre Haute, IN and Japan). Thanks to no region control in HD DVD we can all legally enjoy “Mr & Mrs Smith”, “The Prestige” and others from sites http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/hd-dvds-c-35.html and http://amazon.co.uk/s******sr_st/203-...t=-releasedate.

For the record, Microsoft`s involvement in HD DVD rotates around supporting the format by:
1) Xbox 360 HD DVD drive
2) VC-1 support for BOTH formats
3) HDi support
4) Work in the DVD Forum from working groups up to the steering committee.

This type of support shouldn`t come as a surprise to anyone as this is what Microsoft has historically done, support developers to use tools to provide the best experience for their customers.

While a lot of people disagree with data posted on Harry Knowles site (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...oap060107.html) Harry accurately reported why Paramount is supporting HD DVD moving forward when he said (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33722):
“For those of us consuming these products - it's easy to simply believe decisions are made due to just advertising incentives, but when you speak to the technology guys inside these studios - you hear that HD DVD is cheaper, serves the technological needs of the High Definition format, that the programming languages are an extension of the established DVD format - so it is easier for them to work with. This decision is about more than an intial Toshiba advertising incentive - the decision was made at a tech level, an economic level and about a cost delivery level to the public. Paramount made this decision from the tech guys up.”

I hope this clears up the misinformation that has been reported regarding Microsoft`s involvement in the Paramount/Dreamworks decision or in the “rumored” involvement with Warner. For the record, I respect Bill in that we are both enthusiast from the days of laser discs and we are both interested in seeing movies in HD the way that they were originally on film. In the meantime, I look forward to continue showing everyone, with shipping titles, why Microsoft believes in HD DVD.

Best,

- kevin

Refreshingly ( and almost uniquely )calm response in the current climate although I'm sure it won't protect him from a savaging in some circles somewhere along the line . He has been doing the 'Hd -DVD Roadshow' with Amir -M , also of MS , over the last couple of years and they have been party to the 'Insider's Thread ' over at Avs .

Its interesting that they believe cheaper for the studios , cheaper for the manufacturers , cheaper for the consumer is the best approach for the market currently , given that , Onkyo apart , the other player manufacturers have found other uses for their thumbs lately


~M~

if I can I'll see which FW my XA1 is running. Whatever it currently is- its working. Nice comments from the MS guy. Manus- you said it- no gloating- just stupidity.

Best regards,
Jerry

Apparently there is no problem with XA1 v2.3 and any Lumagen HDMI-enabled processor . The engineers at Toshiba must have just messed it up for DVI inputs.