Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems PCM from HDMI to DSP speakers

I hope you can help me. I have DSP5000's, a DSP5000c and DSP33 as front, center and surround speakers. I also own a Toshiba HD-A1 and Sony PS3, for playing HD-DVD and Bluray. The HD-A1 player decodes all format to PCM and outputs this on the PCM stream in the HDMI. The PS3 does something similar, although not always decoding is necessary since a lot of BR discs have PCM soundtracks. I want to enjoy the improved sound from these next gen player on my speakers without going to the analog domain. How do I solve this problem?

I contacted Meridian last year on this topic (just mailed them again), but then they said they were not planning to add a HDMI input to the G68. I suggested they made a HDMI to their own encrypted audio format (MHR?), but I got no reply on that.

Thanks in advance for any help!

I don't think you are going to have an HDMI colution at the moment. IIRC HDMI audio is encrypted so you can't simply extract PCM from it. There may be ('illegal') 3rd party boxes available in the same way they video can be decrypted.

With HD-A1, analogue is probably going to be best (if your processor accepts M/C audio) and I guess standard DD/DTS on PS3.

Meridian say they are ahead on the HDMI game. Its complicated and vital parts of the specification required to get high quality are not yet 'final'. Yes, there are processors out there now that deal with HDMI audio, but not making use of the required meta data required to achieve a high quality result. Meridian (and some other manufacturers) are obviously only interested in high quality results, whereas others are quite happy to deliver a non optimal solution.

As for upgrades to existing kit. Some of the kit is modular but Meridian are down playing the upgrade route. Whether there will be a solution or not, only Meridian themselves know.

You'll also need to synchronously control volume of speakers and need some sort of Meridian Controller.

As I have DSP speakers I obviously do not want to go the analogue route. Waiting for Meridian to come with a solution is also not really a viable solution, unless you have extreme patience. Since I am already waiting for a year, I have also passed that station ... so what are the possibilities?

Well, for starters I was thinking of adding 3 times SPDIF outputs to my HD-A1. I checked with a 'hardware-guy' and he said this should be no problem. I have asked him for the costs of such a solution, so I hope that I know this soon. I was planning to connect those outputs to the 2nd inputs of the DSP speakers, leaving the original setup as it is.

But this got me thinking ... maybe we can do the same with a receiver that does support HDMI. Onkyo has the TX-SR605 coming, and it features everything I want.

So my question: are there more people interested in such solution? Because then it would be interesting for the hardware boys to produce such an output board.

Please let me know what you think of this idea!

evdberg - I really don't think that a DIY solution is going to cut it. Yes Onkyo will have a solution, but will it counter the potentially disastrous jitter of the HDMI carrier? I doubt it. The same goes for any DIY solution - accurate audio clock recovery is a pre-requisite to realizing the potential high-fidelity of the new formats.

Personally, I'm enjoying the full bit-rate DTS from my XA1 which does sound pretty darn good.

Don't assume getting 3 SPDIF outputs from HD-A1 is so easy.

HDMI is encrypted don't even think about touching it.

Get a G68 and get the full satisfaction out of your speakers. The DTS and DD is so good the difference in lossless is tiny compared to so many other things.

You are getting into a much deeper mess than you realize.

Personally I find all this jitter talk FUD. I am pretty confident that any DIY solution to take the PCM stream made by the mentioned 'hardware guy' will blow away DTS easily.

Getting SPDIF from the HD-A1 is dead simple, just tap the signal before the DAC. We already located possible tappoints. I didn't say that we would tap the HDMI signal, since that is impossible due to the encryption.

And jitter on HDMI is no problem at all. As the receiver has clocked the signal into its memory, the data is recovered and any jitter is of no consequence whatsoever anymore.

Fine, but just bear in mind that Meridian doesn't think it's FUD. And you own a lot of Meridian kit that sounds the way it does precisely because Meridian engineers do understand jitter and its audible effects.

Tapping the A1 prior to the DACs seems a good way to go though. Good luck.

There are a couple of years old working HW hacks for Pioneer 575 (don't remember the model # for USA) playing DVD-Audio, described somewhere on the internet. Exactly the same idea. Before that, the Denon 2900 was successfully hacked (a bit more complicated), so it's sure possible.

It's similar to DVDUpgrades mod (http://www.dvdupgrades.ch/list/Modification/SPDIF/Output.html), though their is also including lots of code written for DSD decoding.

It's easy if the DAC isn't INSIDE another chip. Or the traces are not so small you can't even see the spacing between them with the naked eye. Or the pins for chip are under it and going to traces on center layers in the board.

Unless you have a Meridian Controller with MHR input (3xSPDIF) it very likely will be a nightmare controlling volume on all the speakers.

Try comparing a MP3 at say 320kbs and Lossless and see if you can hear the difference. Be honest with yourself. Because that is about the difference you'll get.

Look at some of the newer video processors like Gefen and DVDO that accept audio via HDMI and can output concurrently on HDMI and SPDIF or TOSLINK.

Jay,

I don't think the SPDIF on a DVDO will decode that off the HDMI. The SPDIF output is just an independent Audio switcher. It may transcode (A/D) from analog or between TosLink and Coax, but that's about it.

I don't know of any product that would decode lossless off HDMI and transmit ala 3xSPDIF.

To buy chips that can do the decryption you have to be licensed and to be licensed you have to follow rules for your products. I don't think you'll find a mainstream company doing this. You may find a garage in Tiawan pulling chips of boards and making a magic box.

That GenFen box looks pretty nice though for 1080p switcher/scaler for the price.