Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems DSP8000 Audition

SUMMARY

Spent more than 8 hours auditioning a pair of DSP8000 speakers. The system auditioned included an 800 DVD; 861 Processor with upsampling and MHR enabled on the 800.

In summary, the sound was astonishing; with superbly transparent out of the box presentation; great imaging and revealing a level of “air”, depth, detail and above all, musicality that I personally never had the pleasure of hearing before.

DETAIL

Currently, I own an 800 / 861 combination feeding 3 by D6k`s at the front and a pair of D5k`s at the rear, with a D2500 sub used for movies.

Before going to the audition, I have to admit I was VERY sceptical that I would hear a substantial difference between my D6k`s and the D8k`s. I did expect the D8k`s to be better but not sufficiently better to go anyway near justifying the almost 3 fold difference in price. Nothing prepared me for the substantial difference in performance that I heard.

The UK dealer that I had purchased the above from called me to tell me that they had recently received a pair of D8k`s and that they had set them up at the home of the dealer owner. By the time that I auditioned them, the D8k`s had been run in for about 8 days of constant playing. His regular system was the same 800 / 861 out to a Krell Class A 300C amplifier feeding a pair of B&W Nautilus 801 speakers (and these were used for comparison purposes during the course of the audition.)

Both the 800 series were running the latest versions of the software (1.61 for the 800 and 2.71 for the 861.) Using an SPL meter, I ran the 861 Calibration mode to ensure that the listening level at the seating position was the same as with my own home system.

The room size and type plays an extremely important part in any sound “system”, but I was fortunate that the room was very similar in layout and dimensions to my own, but with an 8` rather than a 10` ceiling. This enabled me to get familiar to the room quite quickly. During the course of the audition, we settled on levels of Axis at -2 and Bass set at -2 (to -3 on some music) as those that best suited the room.

Listening primarily to my own eclectic CD collection, we went through a range of Jazz, Classical, Opera, Rock, Soul and R&B music. These were primarily 44/16 CD`s with a few 2-channel 96/24 DVD-V`s thrown in for good measure.

My main thoughts would run along the lines of

� Tremendous “Air” around instruments and voices
� Great imaging and separation while maintaining the cohesiveness of the music as a whole
� Transparent imaging resulting in a complete removal of the “box”
� The best “close your eyes and the performers are in the room” performance I`ve ever heard
� “Vocals” were just superb and I found myself listening to inflections and nuances that I had either not heard at all or as clearly in my own system (which I had thought was revealing)
� The best compliment I can pay them is that I didn`t want to leave and given a choice, I would have stayed there and listened to my entire collection just to “hear the music”

For comparison purposes, we twice rolled the B&W N801`s back in (and Meridians back out.) Replaying the same tracks immediately highlighted the discrepancies in the performance between the Krell / B&W combination and the D8k`s.

It must be understood that the B&W N801`s are a truly excellent speaker, particularly in the mid and top ranges, with very good imaging. It`s just that the D8k`s are just extraordinary (IMHO)

In summary, I would STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you do what it takes to get a listen to these speakers and to make your own mind up.

Yes the price is also extraordinary and while I do understand the economies of scale to be had from “standardising” on one design of a product (rather than having multiple options), I really do wish that Meridian would look after their “Meridian Digital System” customers, by cutting down on the amount of duplication between its products.

For example, in a potential 800 / 861 / D8k system, each of the stages is capable of upsampling, and when using the superior 3 stage upsampling in the 800, the same stages in the 861 and D8k`s are left under utilised. If the removal of such stages reduced the overall price, WITHOUT affecting the performance, then I would be very much in favour of such a change. I`m pretty sure that Meridian would use the argument of economies of scale by having one design, but nonetheless….

An extraordinary speaker at an extraordinary price….

A final comment is that a recent web search reveals that there is a review of the D8k`s in the November issue of Stereophile. As this is not freely available over here (Ireland), had anybody seen this review and can it be posted here in some manner.

[This message has been edited by RHurley (edited 11-26-2001).]

Bar winning the lottery I'm not going to see a pair of 8k's but they do sound like the business.

I'm pleased with the assesment becuase I do feel the same way about my 5k's and by the sound of things the 8k's (not forgetting the 861/800).

The 861 is still on my wish list. Just need to talk the wife into it, I've just bought her a new car so I could try and sneak a 861 in the back door, but I know she will notice!!

So are you going to buy the 8k's?

Martin.

Meridian has invested R&D into upsampling, filtering and what not. Having duplicate copies of these investments in there systems is peanuts in added manufacturing costs.

A direct comparison leaving the speakers in the room might have been even better. Although some people argue about single speaker demonstrations (often those without untreated rooms), it is of higher importance to have a gap as short as possible between the forth and back switching. Then you also notice much easier how with many poor speakers the sound stage will collapse or will defuse to giant soundstages. Some people even argue that doing stuff like rolling heavy speaker will cause higher blood pressure on the ear and prevent any relaxing valid comparisons.

However, I envy you that you at least got that shot you got on these speakers, well on the 8Ks to be honest .



[This message has been edited by Andreas (edited 11-27-2001).]

RHurley,
thanks so much for your review. I am currently considering the DSPs and although it seems you auditioned the system with music only- for movies, do you think one would need a subwoofer if one used 2 8000s up front?

additionally, I think while the DSPs are expensive, when you look at the competing choices you will find out they offer a good value-
Look at what you would need to achieve similar results:

top of the line speaker
~300w of power amplification for the bass unit
~300w of amplification for the treble/mid unit
external active xover
cables and interconnects (expsnsive ones if you like)
perhaps some kind of correction like a tact unit or even just an eq


I believe if you tried to duplicate what the DSP8000 does with the N801s- you would find that you probably end up spending more with something that is not neaarly as elegant in execution nor in looks.

just my 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by JerryL (edited 11-27-2001).]

Andreas
Luckily the N801`s were on their ball bearing bases and were easy to move the required 10 ft or less out to the other room. The Meridians were certainly more difficult but still a lot easier to move than my D6k`s for example, as you can put back on “glides” over the spikes and that makes them easier to slide in a particular direction. The whole change process probably took less than 5 minutes.

Regarding higher blood pressure, both the dealer owner and my contact were present and they did all the moving. The only work I had to do was flexing my right elbow every now and again to raise the beer glass. (not too many though as more important things to consider )

They were also very interested in the comparison as they needed to make a decision whether or not to stock these speakers at their shop for demonstration purposes. The dealer owner was also trying to decide if he wanted a pair to replace his own N801`s. (For what it`s worth, the answer was yes on both counts)

While your point on the “time gap” between auditioning the different speakers is true, I`d have to say, in the politest way possible, that the difference was not subtle. Again, I did think that I might struggle to “hear” a difference due to different room etc., but literally 30-60 seconds of listening to certain pieces was sufficient to observe a difference. I can say with confidence that if there had been a time gap of 12 hours, the difference would still have been obvious. (I`m neither trying to be flippant here nor am I being derogative of the still excellent performance of N801 and Krell, I`m just giving my opinion)

We did try the N801`s with their bases removed and while a gain was identified, the gap was really not dented.


JerryL
As you say, the audition was of the speakers in Stereo mode only and not as part of a home theatre setup. Therefore, my focus was on their “music” capabilities.

Having said this, I did find that their low frequency dynamics, extension and cohesiveness was simply superb. While the LFE requirements of a 5.1 movie soundtrack are different, I`d be very surprised if a pair of D8k`s did not give sterling LF performance in say a 5.0 setup. (As you know, each of the D8k`s have 6 by 8” bass drive units driven by 3 dedicated amps totalling 450W per channel, with another 100W for the mid and 100W for the Treble.)

As per my previous post, I already run a D2500 sub for movies only and I do find that this adds a certain edge to the D6k`s during movies and I prefer movie soundtracks with the sub on than without. I will try the D8k`s with and without and see which I prefer.

Regarding the price, your points on what is “included” in the DSP8000 are very valid. Indeed, in a reply post on another non-Meridian forum, I wrote that it was best to think of the D8k as not just a speaker, but an ENCLOSURE which contained integrated by still separate components for

� Upsampling to 88/24
� 2 100 MHz Motorola 56366 processors for DSP etc.
� 4 by 192 / 24 Delta Sigma DAC`s
� 5 dedicated amplifiers resulting in 650W RMS per channel
� 8 speaker drive units
� and all the high quality interconnects that would usually be necessary to connect such components



[This message has been edited by RHurley (edited 11-27-2001).]

Would the D8Ks upsample directly from a digital source, say a 508 or 596, or do they require an 800, 568 or 861 to "tell" them to do so?

The 8ks are expensive depending on the view.

1) From a system point of view they are cheap, as a complete Meridian system offers benefits simply not available in other systems. You get their own developed technologies making it possible to get high resolution signals from the source digitally up to the speaker before D/A.

2) Besides that they are are horrible expensive. Without the DSP you get primarily a 3 (or was it 4 way) active speaker (I think it was 3 way, right, a 2 way main unit and a 6 driver bass stand unit). The 8K cost here in Germany around 100.000.-DM list price. Not looking at the DSP or the "integral Meridian benefits" I get equal performance for 1/4th the price, leaving me 3/4 to get a good DSP x-over offered also as an option by other manufacturers that are offering active systems, and of course a nice new car.

It all depends on your view, although I really like the 8Ks I'm just too tight to my current sized wallet and would rather think "rational" if I would have that cash in my hands for the very first time.

The "comparisons thing" is truly subjective. With a friend I discovered very quickly that the human brain is forgetting very fast. You listen to 2 songs on the 2nd pair of speakers and struggle to tell the difference to the first speakers, due to the setup "time fence". You unplug, bring back the others, think "oh, I hear a difference", listen again to 2 more songs and find again that you get used to what you hear.

In our case it was so very difficult because we compared 2 pairs of very neutral studio monitors. In case of ths 8Ks and the B+Ws you are right. One will hear the differences better. I forgot that my active monitors slayed my former passive speaker as well, yes, without a doubt in a short time.

Cheers,
Andreas

[This message has been edited by Andreas (edited 11-27-2001).]

Frank,
I dont know for sure- but I think they can upsample from PCM source (like CD) or simply pass along a prior upsampled signal.

- Jerry

Frank
Jerry is correct when he says that the D8k`s will upsample a 44.1k or 48k by 16 bit source to 88.2k or 96k by 24 bit.

As far as I am aware, they will do this automatically, it is not something that you can enable or disable, but this last point is something that would have to be checked directly with Meridian. I have looked thru the manual, and while they talk about upsampling, there is nothing mentioned about disabling it. The manual says

“All processing is performed upsampled in twin 100MHz digital signal processors. The DSP8000 uses memory-based dejittering system for ultimate clarity.”

They will obviously accept an 88.2 or 96k by 24 bit signal (MHR encoded or not) and decode that (in the same way as an 861 will accept and process an 88.2k signal from an 800 DVD)

So, not that you would, but you could purchase e.g. a �300 CD or DVD machine to go with your pair of D8k`s and send the player`s digital out directly to the speaker. The combination of Upsampling, FIFO memory based de-jittering, and high quality DSP`s and DAC`s would mean that you could have a high quality STEREO system for just �300 more than the cost of the D8k`s.

Just a silly thought!!

It was mentioned somewhere on the web that DSP8k can handle 192kHz if my memory serves me right. Does it mean it will further upsample the signal to 192kHz or even higher before it plays back the music?

Anyone have more information on its processing power because the interface and how it handles 192kHz has not been mentioned. Does it come with the MMHR that people are mentioning on DVD-A digital interface?

-Dennis

As you can see from the above, the D8k`s have 192KHz / 24 bit DAC`s and can decode such a stream.

However, upsampling is only to 88.2 and 96k.

The D8k user manual says that “192kHz supported with special firmware and cabling; details available on request”

I guess more information will become available around the time of the 800.3 and 861.3 upgrades to DVD-A.