Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Are we doing ourselves 'no favours' re: S/H M Equipment ?

Regarding enjoying our products

Over the last few years, all of my two- and multi-channel sources - feeding 3x DSP33s and a well-integrated sub via the G68 - have sounded wonderful. I am also privileged to enjoy a number of (non-Meridian) audio sources via the sensational 518 to a pair of MkI DSP5000s in a dedicated stereo second system.

And yes, I've sold a very good high-end Meridian player recently. Why?

My overriding concern for 2007 was (finally) to take my video to high-end levels, stabilize my system, do it in as cost-neutral a manner as possible, and without compromising the audio. Quite a tall order eh?

So I've just undergone a wholesale change of my sources which is entirely video-driven. Mark_H pushed me off the HD fence and I'm very grateful to him for this - the difference on a projected screen is quite remarkable. So out have gone my SDI 598, Sky+ and Crystalio front end. In have come an Oppo HD970 (DVD), a Tosh HD-XA1 (HD-DVD), and SkyHD. My interim Panny AE900 projector will soon be replaced by a JVC HD1 (which has suberb internal Gennum deinterlacing and scaling).

I have been quick to sell certain items of kit (to ensure my resale losses are minimized), but only after evaluation of the replacements. But the one constant in my system for the last couple of years has been my G68. And I'm realizing more and more just how good a piece of kit this is. In fact, I think that it is precisely because the G68 is so good that I've been able to replace my 598 with "lesser" kit such as the Oppo and Squeezebox without compromising on sound quality. In selling my 598, therefore, I sincerely do not feel I have taken a backwards audio step.


Regarding a future strategy for Meridian

Andrew. Great post. I was writing this one as you posted yours and I reckon that they are related in some way.

In my experience, Meridian's biggest value-added and competitive advantage is its intellectual property as embodied in its processors and DSP speakers. I've never heard anything quite so good and dynamically effortless as the latest 96/24 DSPs and, as I've already hinted at, there is technology in Meridian's processors so advanced and groundbreaking that to most of us (and Meridian's competitors no doubt) appears magical*.

However, I don't think that Meridian can compete on sources any more, at least not without collaboration (look what Oppo can achive at $150 retail). Perhaps then Meridian should concentrate on interoperability with 3rd-party source manufacturers? Something along the lines of:

"Sure you can buy a Linn Unidisk, but why not buy a cheap spinner and one of our processors for the same cost? (And then you'll start lusting over some of our speakers!)"

or:

"Are you really listening via HDMI - didn't you know it's a worse audio transport than SPDIF? Come with us and we'll show you the only HDMI jitter-reduction solution that will deliver the benefits of TrueHD**".


* With apologies to Arthur C. Clark.
** Replace TrueHD with your preferred lossless multi-channel format here (or with 96/24 LPCM).

MalcolmW

The purchase of the factory (a one off expense) was funded by the sale of the royalty stream (a one off gain). The bank debt is "on-top" of that. The underlying business still burnt nearly �1m in cash before all of that. Here's how the cash moved in 2005 (summary)

� (841,000) Cashflow loss from operations
� (173,000) Interest paid on debt
�(3,909,000) Purchase of factory
� 1,455,000 Sale of old factory
� 3,023,000 Sale of Royalty stream
� 53,000 Tax rebate
-------------
� (392,000) Net cash shortfall

� 1,966,000 New debt


Would love to see the latest numbers from the Mothership and give them my "expert" advice .... that's my day job.

PS - They spent the same amount on R&D in 2004 as in 2005. It is normal to spend a certain % of revenue every year on R&D so they will have to keep spending this to stay alive.

Andrew

I don't think this thread is meant to be all negative towards Meridian. We are just talking about DVD and why it's resale value has dropped. It is hopefully constructive criticism and might help Meridian in deciding which way to move. It is a tough problem. By the way I don`t think it`s just Meridian. Anyone who knows Tweeter in the US is having large layoffs. It may be competition from BestBuy. But Tweeter is definitely more higher end than BestBuy.

http://hometheater.about.com/b/a/167117.htm

I love my System, I have what's listed in my signature. But I have ditched Meridian DVD. One thing I don't want this site to be is a FanBoy site. And history has shown it's not. We state our opinions and that's that.

Three years ago when DVDA came out it was a seller's market. Now that DVDA has failed, and the $300 Squeezebox is rivaling these $7,000-$16,000 transports in performance (and whipping them in functionality), it has become a buyer's market. Quite frankly I think that people just got too carried away and believed the hype that came from Meridian, Widescreen Review, etc. Now the reality has set in - don't spend $7k on a player if the software isn't there, or if the diminishing returns are obscenely expensive - and you simply have a hard time selling stuff that just isn't worth it to the majority of people. This is even putting aside that the Meridian players had a great many bugs to boot. For just about every product out there, the hype is over - it's now about real value, real function and real enjoyment. Forget the pretense -it costs way too much.

I have to be honest that I find the talk of emerging formats and screens etc a more wholsome read. A few years ago (pre G) I directed a friend here who spent a week or so looking. He came back to me and said nothing happens on there, they seem like a right boring bunch and hardly post anyway. He has now joined as although he has Meridian he also has other interests as we all do, of which many an answer can be gained from someone here.

Regards Paul

As an old fashoined 2 channel audio fan I cannot agree more.

I love the Meridian sound. That smooth, lush, warm sound that makes any recording sound better and does not throw all the shortcomings in your face.
It is an optimistic, positive sound.

When you listen to some of the other "stuff" that is out there (now I have to because my G57 is at Meridian for repair and I am forced to use different amp) it emphasizes how good I had it with Meridian.

Getting back to the original discussion topic:
In my opinion Second hand prices are not reflective of the quality of the gear you are buying.
I was quiet surprized at the $1,250 selling price of the 598 and I agree that haggling does not help anybody. When I buy stuff at Audiogon I never ask for more than 5% discount and sometimes not even that. Asking $2,000 for a 598 and settling for $1,250 seems unfair to me.
Heck, the 598 was a unit that was sold for around $4,500 when new and it is still a state of the art DVD/CD Player (not even getting into DVD Audio).
When I compare my humble 596 to some umpsampling cheap Toshiba/Philips/Sony units of today, there is no comparison in my mind. The 596 puts them all to shame, Video wise without even getting into built quality aspects.
That is the advantage of High-end equipment: The timeless design.

I think the cost is pure marketing related in my mind.
Nevertheless I think that for a small company Meridian got a great share of publicity and good name which makes the second hand products more marketable than some other brands.

I would not think that this forum is a contributor to lowering of second hand prices. If anything, this forum "spreads the word" of the greatness of Meridian and is a great free PR for the company.

This is my opinion anyways,

Best regards,

Doron

With a turnover of �1.4 million in the UK market at their selling price that's around 800 - 1000 units a year. To think we as a forum buying and selling in the 10's can affect the secondhand market is not realistic. Even more so in the USA with around 6000 units sold every year.

Regards Paul

At the time 596 was released, sure, it was pretty competitive. But today a $200.00 Oppo would beat a 596 or the 598 in video hands down. The build quality of Meridian components are great, their service is great. Great integration with Meridian systems counts for something too. But we won't talk about Meridian DVD players must be playing while any source is selected issue (burning up the hours that transport is good for). But it is the Video that really counts. It's pretty impressive a 598 could yield $1250.00 when an a $200.00 Oppo or a $600.00 PS3 will beat it in DVD Video and garnished with blu-ray !!!

I don't think anyone is mad at Meridian, I'm not. They tried to make a go of it with DVD-A as the added value, but it didn't make it. But likewise folks shouldn't be mad if we start talking common sense.

Like I said earlier if Meridian had a track record of upgrading 500 or G Series DVD then it's a whole different story and loyal Meridian customers would wait. But Meridian chooses not to, that's fine, but don't expect all of us to watch and wait while our 598/G98 devaluate, while their less-highend friend dabble with blu-ray, hd and music servers for what some of us might pay for power cords.

I'm sure we are all at different phases in priority with our systems. Some looking forward to Blu-Ray and HD and to impatient to wait for Meridian. They like being where the techno gadget action is (how else would have arrived at DVD-A). Others may have priorities with family or job and are perfectly content with what they have now.

But the tendancy is with the new technoologies arriving, music servers (actually they have been around quite a while now, I was just too brain washed into thinking it couldn't sound as good as any Meridian spindle), HD, blu-ray it is going to influence the used market prices Meridian components that these new technologies are competing with.

Meridian has sold us on better implementations in the past and they may do it for some of us again. Hard to say.

So some of us are dabbling with new technology and some are enjoying the existing technology. Neither is right to blame the other for moving forward or staying in a holding pattern.

Anyone find it odd, that this huge list of DVD players reviewed no longer lists any Meridian players? I know for a fact it used to. And we know Stacey Spears who helped put this together is well aware of Meridian. Meridian is listed in the manufacturers but no players show up.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi

Here is another example of why "high-end" DVD prices are dropping.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782887

Ouch...the Crystallio II is a pricey piece of kit, and only arrived on these shores around 8 months ago...

Cheers

George

Having just read the review, I see an opportunity for the like of Meridian.

Basically take a XA2/XE1 and perform a little magic on it. I am not talking about quality so much, but functionality. As far as Georges link goes, the XA2 and presumably XE1 has a stonker of a scaler on board. Well Meridian should turn it into a HD version of the G91 or G98, stick it in a nice G series case and, for the sake of existing Meridian owners, provide integration as per existing Meridian protocols (incl. MHR Smartlink) and RS232. Even better if it had HDMI in/out.

You would then have a HD-DVD player, with excellent scaling capabilities of external sources to rival standalone scalers (something that the G9x appeared never to achieve), top notch sound and a highly desirable lifestyle appeal. Charge �2000-�2500 ($4000/$5000) for it which I hope would give a nice profit margin and allow for greater mass production - since it was based on an existing piece of kit. Im no expert on money matters the the figures are just guestimates.

If something that I recently read is to be believed, the irony would be that Meridian's first CD (or DVD?) player was based on a Toshiba.