Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Are we doing ourselves 'no favours' re: S/H M Equipment ?

Ron,

AudioGon is asking prices, not actually sold prices. I sold mine on AudioGon too. My asking price was around $2000.00. Note that AudioGon bluebook does not always reflect closed deal prices either.

I also bet the folks buying DVD players at bestbuy are the ones buying the under $100.00 DVD players (folks that were still on VHS).

I still plan to buy CD's, I plan to rip them and enjoy them on the SqueezeBox.

I never bought many DVD's, I've had DVD since day 1 and have perhaps 30 now. I think it's an easy trap that if you really like a movie to buy it. But I barely have the time to watch new releases never mind old ones. Half the ones I bought are pre rentals. I probably won't buy any more DVD's unless they are Music ones or DVD-A ones. I might buy some SACD's if Meridian releases a darn HDMI card. But now that I'm getting used to SqueezeBox, if it can't be ripped I may not buy it.

DVD's are far from dead, but there is no reason for cutting edge nuts like us to be investing in DVD players. My 598 and DVDO sale covered the cost of an HD-DVD, Blu-Ray and SqueezeBox !!! I'm so pleased with the Blu-Ray and SqueezeBox I lost the urge at the moment to even get the planned HD-DVD player. Gotta spread the fun out a bit :-)

I'll jump in here.. i was just thinking about some gear ive been trying to sell in the past few weeks, usual places, audiogon and eBay. posted in both places (and no this is not a shill to move my stuff here!) but i couldnt fetch decent prices for arcam amp, atc scm12's Harmonic tech biwire speaker cable and mission stance stands... ATC 12 seemed to be selling briskly on AG and eBay for arond $850 to $1000 USD.. but best bid i could muster on eBay was around $600ish USD.. so i'll keep all the gear. not worth letting go.. i wonder what has caused the dip in way appears to me, a 'flat spot' in secondary bids for high end gear...

any thoughts?

Oh and to add to above posts, i have gone the route of 500 gig hard drives at $199 USD for Lacie brand. these stream music into itunes for pc and then off to an airport express. In past months i bought a Meridian 203 DAC to go with a Headroom (www.headphone.com) Cosmic headphone amp driven by the optical signal out of the apple airport express into a pair of sennheiser 650s.. i liked what i heard so i bought a Meridian 518 to put into the 'mix' and now i like it more... so i too, guess high end CD/DVD players will fall as more apple tv type products hit the market. hey only $299 usd for that item to move video around your home wirelessly....

whew...

I don't think anything this forum does will change the market for second hand goods. Price is a function of supply and demand. At the moment there is no demand for a 561/596 either here or on other websites (see my ad from December) - in a few months someone might want them or maybe not. I bought the equipment knowing that I might have to write-off 50%+ and that is where it will end up.

Any technology depreciates at a rate consistent with its rate of development (consumer electronics, computers etc) and AudioVisual technology is developing at a super fast pace. Remember how long vinyl lasted and how long the changeover to CD took. Compare that to how long CD lasted and the rate of downloading music taking over.

Our world of high end digital lossless AV is accelerating fast and all our source and processing components will depreciate as fast.

As I have said before, I believe the items which should hold their value are:

1) Amplifiers and
2) Speakers

The point at which the perfect digital world needs to become analogue and "real" is the most difficult area and good stuff will hold value.

Look at the debate over TV's (LCD vs Plasma vs DLP vs CRT etc) - there will always be subjective argument about "depth of colour" and "reproduction" .... isn't that exactly the same language used when talking about amps/speakers. This is where manufacturers can deploy "skill" in making things exceptional and it is the area where "Sony" can get it most wrong and "Meridian" can beat the cr@p out of them consistently.

Conclusion - I will hold onto my DSP speakers for a very long time but the 596/561 has fallen behind the curve and I will need to upgrade. Even the G91 doesn't really cut it (no HDMI inputs).

Not sure how this adds to the debate but I absolutely agree that we should all ENJOY OUR GEAR!!! Like the distribution of wealth we must all be in the top 1% of the world hifi league.

PS - Is it worth a poll to compare the amount of time we spending "talking/thinking" about hifi to the amount of time we spend "listening" to it? (tee hee)

Hi

What I find interesting is that people explain the Meridian DVD price drop has been due to the advent of HD DVD/Bluray! Everywhere else I read on here it feels that these formats will never take off and are doomed to fail!
2 Linn Movie's sold on eBay for between �1550 and �1700 secondhand with a retail price of �2800. Similar in nature to a G91A. No where near as good, it has no HDMI and no DAB tuner option. It will not upsample any of the audio or video inputs but does have a built in 5 channel amp. Either way that is well over 50% of its new value and is considered high end in most peoples eyes. For gods sake it doesn't even have HDMI and people still want to buy it.
Why? No HDMI video let alone HDMI audio. No upgrade path and not a very good review unlike the Meridian DVD players.

I have seem a major drop off in people wanting to buy Meridian from 2-3 years ago. My inbox used to be full with 'can you get me' questions and I could move the second hand kit they wanted to get rid of to a list of people waiting to buy it! I maybe get one enquiry every 3-6 months now.
Maybe its money but the UK are doing well with low unemployment etc. Again this is affecting Meridian in particular as I can site examples from a linn CD12 selling secondhand for �6k on eBay not long back. I looked 3 years ago at buying one and it sold for �6k then.
Vinyle is not even mass produced any more but my friend sells high end decks for upto �3800 + �2500 for the arm. When I have put one on eBay I could sell 5 of them for circa 70% of list and these are all secondhand decks.
I think the plain fact is Meridian have lost some of it's market for whatever reason and we as enthusiasts don't want to see it. We were spoilt with good second hand values over the years but the bubble has burst and it hurts. I sold all of my Meridian kit as I could see how it was going and I did not want to get burnt with over �25k invested in it at one time. Speakers are not holding their value. I could have sold 2-3 pairs of DSP5000's MKII for �2200 only 12-18 months ago, now there are no offers at �1800?
eBay can give you good results or burn you bad, luck of the draw on the day and you only hope 2 people want the item and are prepared to pay a decent amount. If only one guy wants them then you are stuffed. Nick Pugh does not seem to sell much Meridian at all now so he must know there is a problem. At one time if you wanted to sell he would be one of the first to email offering to take it off your hands ready to turn around onto eBay and make a few quid. As much as I hate to admit it either Meridian have lost a lot of customers for one of two reasons:
1) They have gone elsewhere (other makes) leaving us to talk of the good old days,
2)or they were all so old they have died leaving there kit to kids who want to paddle up the streaming highway and surf the bitrates!

Either way it has been happening for so long I don't believe it will recover. Richards thread had a reply saying he would love to buy the G91 but he can not get the money he wants for his kit to buy Richards making it not worth selling. This to me seems obvious that in the current market the items are all priced to high. Whether we agree or not it appears that the only way we can solve the problem is for all of us to buy at the asking price +20% to make the market strong again. That would not really solve the problem as you sell for more and then you have to pay more to buy unless you are not buying Meridian again! A circle really but if we can all do that then I do have a few bits left I could sell you!

Regards Paul

If there has been a downturn in interest in 2nd hand M kit, maybe it's due to their retreat from 2 channel systems? Most of the hifi press still clings to the 2 channel paradigm, and no matter how good M's multichannel offerings are, they won't get much coverage in the press. No coverage in the press means the brand's profile declines.

I realise that M still make 2 channel components, but those products don't have much of a USP, and M don't promote them very actively.

Mark S

I think its a result of unrealistic expectations caused by rapid changes in the formats available and their distribution/transmission.

10 years ago Meridian brochures used to highlight the fact that their kit rarely appeared in the 'For Sale' ads in mags.

As was pointed out in another thread a G9x costs $7k , a Pioneer Bd player costs $1500 and a Toshiba Hdvd player less than $1k . All of these machines have similarities but they aso have differences . The Tosh player upscales video as does the G . The Bd player doesnt play Cds. We're not comparing like with like.

I wish I was just getting into M kit now with these great 2nd hand prices

~M~

As a newcomer to Meridian I can understand large discounts for used electronic gear. The developments on the electronic side are so over my head that I can not take a risk to buy something that I do not know how far behind it is and how critical that is. To me it is like a used computer that after 2 years is totally obsolete. But I can not understand the huge discounts on speakers. I consider myself very fortunate to snap up some terrific bargains there.

This is getting off topic again. The thread is about whether we on the Meridian forum are driving down second-hand prices.

Personally, I check out market rates and sell wherever I think I'll make the most. The Restaurant will always be my first stop for selling Meridian gear and I hope that my hours and hours of posting on this forum count for something in terms of reputation. I'll also try to sell other appropriate items of AV gear if I think they will be of interest to forum members.

My prices will be fair and I'll only usually discount if I want/need a quick sale. If I don't get enough interest then I'll usually try my luck on avforums.com (though nerves of steel and patience are required as people put in stupid offers).

I don't envy owners of G91s and G98s. Lovely pieces of kit, but IMO already out-of-date with recent technological developments. IMO, you can buy better for much much less, particularly with the G68 FIFO as a levelling factor. Hence the plummeting prices.

It's not pleasant losing loads of cash on such an item - I'm currently in the process of selling my Crystalio VPS-2300 scaler and I know I'm going to incur my biggest single loss on a piece of AV kit. Such is life.

On the other hand, I think that overall I've bought and sold Meridian kit quite astutely. To date, I have always bought ex-dem or second-hand equipment and have rarely lost much when selling on.

We must also think that people now have a choice within Meridian. 5 years back you had a 596 and wanted the 598 why sell secondhand and buy new? Go with the upgrade and save some money. Speakers the same and even the CD players with the 24bit upgrades. 568 - 568.2 - 568.2mm.
No wonder there was none secondhand as there was no need to sell. This made for a rock solid second hand market. Speaker range was limited and such a price jump between the range that it was a serious upgrade. Dealers would usually have your old speakers back and could sell them twice over to someone like me who didn't have �4000 for a pair of 5k's.
With the new style of speakers people now have a reason to change. The G appears to have little upgrade potential and Meridian are releasing products to fill the gaps. i.e G61. We must remember the 568 did the lot unless you wanted extra switching capacity of the 562.
Like the old Fords, you can have any colour you want as long as it's black! Cuts down a lot on buying and selling.
I don't think this forum has anything to do with it. Market forces and a lot more choice.
Your thoughts please VK and Holzt?

Regards Paul

I think you are right about the upgrade path Meridian choose to not go with on the G series. That makes the second hand prices hit rock bottom!

Provide an upgrade path and the long lasting value will prevail imho. From the enthusiasts.

This is exactly how I feel about any component now wether Meridian or Lexicon etc. Either be cheap and non-upgradeable. or be expensive and upgradeable. The problem is, the G series isn't cheap. Therefore you hit rock bottom on used gear prices.

The 800 series is too expensive for me new so it's not on the map here.

I think the lack of upgradeability has a lot to do with things. IMO, upgradeability is a win-win scenario for both manufacturer and customer. To be fair, Meridian has the 800 series and, although upgrades are not "cheap", they have been provided for some time now.

The problem is (as has been said) the G-Series kit. It is still awfully expensive new with no substantive hardware upgrades having been provided to date. The 500 series, 568 in particular, had a number of quality improvements that were made available.