Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems sub choice

Ken,

I am using 5.0 set up with 2 DSP 5000 for rear speakers. For music I do not feel the rear channel contributes much to the sound quality, other than making the sound more spacious imho.
In fact I am considering selling my rear speakers to fund for upgrade.
So I do not think i will use up all output connection from 568.2.
If I use a SW1600 I would put it at the front beside the center channel. Where do you put yours?

In response to Harry, I think the term too much subs is not that we can't set it up good rather we do not need bigger or multiple subs to do the same job as a smaller or single can do.

Harry

Dargo-Harry;
Yes, I place mine up front between the center and right speakers with good results; Others like the rear location - but much depends on your romm acoustics and physical limitations; either can work fine - I've used both before. Sounds like 2 are an option for you since you'll be a 2 channel surround at most. Many are fine without surrounds - Trifield especially makes a front-only system sound wonderful for music. One caveat- new mixes tend to make more use of the surrounds; but of course you can always add that back in later....

ken

Ken,

I remember when I had 565 with dsp5000 L/R and 5000 HC center, the bass with Trifield mode was more than stereo mode.
After reading your and Crion comments, my plan is to get 1 sw1600 and then pick up another later.

What is your crossover setting for subs? Some suggest 80Hz but I think Crion sets his at 53Hz.
Imo, higher crossover will effect lower mid-range and imaging.

Harry

I would strongly recommend the use of 2 subs. One sub is often “impossible” to locate when you divide low enough until you buy a second one. Then you will notice small differences in the soundstage and some tactile improvement. There are white papers from several sources like JBL who explain the advantages of using 2 or more subs. I use 2 Paradigm Servo-15 in a 5.0 setup up to 120Hz. Depending on sub and the number of them you have the possibility to use higher cut off frequency. I see some important advantages of using higher cut off frequencies;
1. Less power is sent to the L-R with less distortion generated in L-R speakers.
2. 80Hz-120Hz let some off the lower overtones still to be sent from the same speaker
3. If you use your setup for cinema as well a cutoff frequency of around 80Hz is recommended according to THX.
4. Group delay at crossover lower than 80Hz will cause increasing problem with the speakers getting out of time.

Personal preferences, room acoustics and different equipment will of course give different results but this according to my practical tests and measurements and according to many companies findings and standards.

I found one web page, which I found interesting and I will try out different filter settings and measure to see if further alignments between the different speakers would improve the soundstage even more. I`m happy today but as always you like to have even more fun when listening to music.
http://freerider.dyndns.org/anlage/LeCleach.htm

Regards
Harry

Harry, I've sent you an email.

Cheers,

Chris

"Harry how would you define the main attributes to the term musical?"
"Crossover integration?"
It's easier to describe the opposite.
If you have problem with crossover you will have (more) phase shift in between the speakers. Loobing and uneven polar spread from the speakers will tend to give a irruglar size of the instruments depending on which note is played. When you get it right there will be a more pinpiont soundstage.
"Low distorsion?"
Well, lower distorsion will of course be better and many speakers have huge distorsion in the bass.
"Dynamic range?"
Many stereos tend to sound brighter when you are playing louder. With low distorsion you will also like most often to play louder since your brain will not be fooled to beleive that the spl is higher than it really is. Compare how loud a gettoblaster can sound, but if you measure the spl it is much lower than you would guess.
"Speed?"
Impact, is fun. But most often slightly hidden by room acoustics and intergration in phase with sub and L-R.
"Elimination of room modes?"
Extremely important and also early refelxions from sidewalls, floors and roof. I don't like M's broschures when you see a 8000 standing on tiles without carpets. The speech intelligibility will also be vastly improved with lower decay. It will also be more pleasant to speak in a room with controlled acoustics.
regards
Harry

Dargo-Harry;
I agree with Harryup crossover comments above generally; When I had 2 subs running L/R, I liked having a higher crossover in the 100 - 120 range; Musically it helped offload the 5200s, so they performed better in midrange;

However, this requires the subs to provide part of the imageing as well, so when I went back to a single sub, I liked the 80 Hz crossover better, even at the expense of making the 5200s work a bit harder. I haven't tried the lower crossover that crion uses, but may do so later...

If you can budget 2 subs go for it, but these things are so room and listening dependent that 1 at a time may be a more pragmatic approach.

ken

Ken,

Your explanation makes sense to free up some of the frequency that 5200 struggles and makes it more better in midrange. Let me know what happen if you lower it to 53hz.

For 1 sub, is it connected to digital out of the center channel? I look at the back of my 568.2 it has L/R, C/sub,side/sub & rears.
I connect my center to center/sub.
I am sure this discussion will go on when I already have a sub.
Do you have experience with MRC on68J? I wonder if it is make huge different on bass.

Cheers,

Harry

Chris1971,
have you sent a mail to me or the other Harry?
Have not seen yours.
Slightly confusing with many Harries in the same thread.

Cheers
Harry

Ah yes, think it was the other Harry and yes, very confusing

Don't home in on the 53Hz too much, it's a practical number in my setup as I do have a serious dip above it. I would probably put the x-over between 60-80Hz to ease my horizontal center even more if that dip wasn't present. My mains 5200 L/R are not particularly stressed compared to the horizontal center. I look at the elements and feel/listen to the air from the reflex port.

Don't forget that you can change the x-over in realtime from the G68 panel, activate it then use remote function+arrows to change the x-over frequency.

Crion have you measurred or have you estimated the dip? Tried different location for the sub? Do you need to have the same crossover for the L+R+C as the sub in the G series?

regards
Harry