Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems The one of MANY HD-DVD threads (No bashing Blu-Ray)

I would agree that the way to go on a player if you want to have as much as you can have today is the top players. Especially if you have a display that can accept 1080P because I bet the player's deinterlacer + 3:2 pulldown is superior to most display's.

Since we are having the discussion here, I can report back some early impressions of the Panny Bluray player. Relative to the XA-1 Toshiba HD DVD player, I am a little disappointed with the Panny. Its not picture quality, its just that the experience of using this player is not up to the level its price would suggest. It takes just about as long to boot up and also to load discs, etc as the Tosh. The on screen displays are much cruder and the perceived build quality is not even close to the Tosh. If you took the Toshiba logo off the Tosh player, changed some of the aesthetics to match the current M lineup, you could fool any of us into thinking the Tosh is a Meridian player in terms of build quality. The Panasonic feels, looks and the quality of the displays are like a $250 DVD player. The Tosh originally retailed for like $1100 and can now be bought for around $500. The Panny retails for $1100. So lets call price a bit of a draw because in time the Panny will come down. Yet, even if both sold for $500, the Tosh feels high quality, the Panny feels cheap. The overall feel is kind of like a box you get from your cable TV company. Not good IMHO.

Also the Toshiba just gives me the sense that they are more enthusiastic about their product and they want you to use it to maximum affect. The Tosh comes with a HDMI cable. The panny comes with a *composite* video cable. Thats it! On the plus side it does come with a "free" movie: 8 Below. Of course for $1100- you can bet you paid the full price for that movie! (I guess you could say with the Tosh you paid for the HDMI cable, but my point is it seems the Tosh player was packaged by a company that has some enthusiasm for what they are doing and the Panny was packaged by a company shipping just another widget). I've always been a fan of Panny since their DVD players did not have the CUE (though in later years I heard they did! Also the Tosh has RS-232 control and ethernet, the panny has neither of these.

Picture quality wise, I watched part of Kingdom of Heaven and Ultraviolet. I have to tell you that I was not blown away, but I will put this into perspective in a minute. Right now I want to say to Mark: I got a good laugh recalling your description of Ultraviolet's plot as making Aeon Flux look like Citizen Kane. I thought Aeon Flux would be eye candy and nothing more and it did have an interesting plot- which I think could have been much better if they took more time on it- whereas with Ultraviolet (I did not watch the whole movie) you are so right- theres just eye candy. Not that watching Leeloo kick some more ass is not a bad thing!

As to picture quality, I am using a several year old Runco 5000 projector and whats interesting is that all the noise and things I would see with DVD on my library (plasma) and family room (LCD) monitors, I do not see here. My little theory is that this DLP chip is rolling off the lowest level of black and thereby hiding the parts of the image where these artifacts show up the most. Bottom line is on this 1280x720 screen, the HD DVD and Bluray discs do look better than DVD but, its not the dramatic difference I saw on the other monitors. Again, I attribute this to the monitor/ projector one is using. In my case, I expect that the new projector will expose it, but advice for anyone wanting to use DVD as the format of choice for their theater is getting an older 1080x720 projector will work just fine- it just wont be state of the art, but that wouldnt be needed.

So on this compromised setup I would say that the Serenity HD DVD (I got my UK copy) and the Ultraviolet BRD both looked equally good. Kingdom of Heaven, the few scenes I watched- looked nice, but I wasnt blown away. I should note that Ultraviolet is MPEG-2 and a single layer BRD- yet its a short movie and I suspect it has high bit rates- it looked darn good- and it is very punchy, which I like.

Comparing sound quality. Serenity is DD+, which is a higher bit rate form of DD. Since I do not think our Meridian gear can take this higher bit rate (I wonder if it can? I should check) the tosh player converts it on the fly to DTS 1.5mb/s which is the most data you can get over the SPDIF connection that we currently have. The Untraviolet BRD has either 5.1 PCM or regular DD. So I have to compare between DD on Ultraviolet and DD+ which is then converted to DTS max bit rate. My first impression was the HD DVD of Serenity sounded very "strong". Whatever is going on, I think the DTS encoding is causing a signal that is about 8-10db higher than the DD. (Could this be dialog normalization on DD?) I played the Serenity soundtrack around 75 and the Ultraviolet one around 83 (this is in the range of DVD for me). Comparing both the Serenity one did sound a little more detailed and the bass was a little more pronounced, but this could be due to all kinds of things. Bottom line is both sounded darn good! I'll try setting the HD DVD to output the DD+ bitstream with no DTS conversion and it will be interesting to see the result... thats all from the front lines for now

best regards,
Jerry

Jerry, all the HD discs I've seen are significantly cleaner than DVD in the blacks. It *could* be that your config is crushing blacks, but I think you are simply seeing clean transfers

Mark

The XA1s retail price was $799 when it launched. The XA2 is $999.

I'm not intending to 'bash' Bluray , but if they want to do so themselves I think it's only fair that their voice is heard

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/Blu-ray-today-exaggerations.php


Yuk!


Jerry, I think For Dolby M kit can handle up to 640kbps IIRC. If you have an IA40 or IA45 you can convert the full Plus signal in the player and send it over.

Regards,

~M~

Thanks Daniel- this only makes the point more stark. What are you paying for with the Panny? I suspect its to be first. Maybe there are costs in the laser tech but if the PS3 can be out there for what- like $600- even if Sony loses $300 per unit you still have a game unit and BR player. Here is just the player- I suspect there is at least $200 of "early adopter rape factor" in that price. That said I have no objections to the output of the player.

Mark, I suspect the blacks are being crushed as well. Looking forward to the new projector for a more critical view of these formats.

best regards,
Jerry

Well, it's interesting to note that the number of posts on this HD-DVD thread is at this point 1&1/2 times as many as BD.

Does this mean anything?

Are we naturaly drawn to HD-DVD as a easier on the tongue name for a DVD successor?

Is there just more to say about HD-DVD?

You can tell from this post I need to find more things to think about. Untill then, answers please.

Cheers, Chris

I think in the current climate its probably better to keep your council and ignore the statistics since 'fanboys' from both sides can get a bit carried away.

Several threads have been closed recently on htf and avs for whoop-de-doo gloating etc as a result of Ces.

At least you're more likely to get people's honest opinion of what they are seeing/hearing with either format here.In terms of PQ/SQ both formats are capable of equal quality so the 1� times you mentioned could have something more to do with other things like price ( players and discs) , Drm and BD+ in particular.

The really sad thing is that the 'fanboyism' aspect has meant that most otherwise really informative threads elsewhere eventually end up as a flagwaving contest and make it difficult to sift out good information.

Good Luck in your quest !

~M~

Manus-
Couldn't agree more; This forum is a refreshing difference. Even though people here have their clear favorites, for the most part the discussion is related to the various issues and aspects rather than personal bashing on other forums (also a credit to our moderator).

Both formats offer virtually identical capabilities for PQ/AQ; I wish we had one format, so we could focus more on the various studios and player implementations - that's where the differences are even now, but are often allocated to one format or the other....

I'll be glad when it's over; In the meantime I see no alternative but to ride with both for a while - I've become too addicted already.

Reports are very good on the PS3 BD playback and this is a good lower cost option, offering software based upgrades and a good path for resale later to the game playing world if needed. Likewise for those into the Xbox and add on; Although slow to load, I agree with Jerry - the Toshiba has a great solid feel to it.

I like both formats well enough to be satisfied with either; and way more than the danger 2 formats poses to the success of either....

ken
(I barely understood that myself... )

Am i correct to assume the XA-1 takes longer to boot than the current 2nd gen?

Although the gap might be narrowing on a forum like AVS, from discussions I have witnessed from those both in the UK and on the continent HD DVD has a substantial lead in adoption and consumer interest, perhaps in part to the familiarity of its name certainly, but mostly because of its price. For those in the states who think the Bluray players are overpriced for what you get for the money, come see what Samsung and Panasonic have the audacity to charge here.

HD DVD since its launch has been the format that has consistently delivered too and I think that won a lot of peoples respect. Not that there aren`t some bad discs, of course there are, but the advanced interactivity is here, the number of discs porting all the extras from existing DVD releases far, far outweighs those on Bluray doing the same…etc…etc. The package HD DVD puts forward is just all the more appealing for those seeking various levels of enjoyment from their purchases.

Though certainly Bluray`s upped its game in regards to image quality, not to mention the fact that it is a wonderful thing that so many Bluray titles offer PCM or DTS HD MA at the moment, the format remains lagging behind in player functionality and disc interactivity, with no real clear roadmap as to when it will start to evolve to the dynamic levels of content we`ve seen from HD DVD since March of 2006, or if many existing players bar the PS3 will even be compatible with such enhanced features. HD DVD in terms of both its hardware and software simply seems most deserving of its success, especially in light of the boasts we heard coming out of the Bluray camp prior to launch. Bluray is still not doing enough to justify its premium. It is improving though. That much is clear.

The HD DVD PR Group has also done well in delivering a passionate and unified message. If you come in to contact with many of those involved in the creation and marketing side of HD DVD it is not difficult to see they have a sincere passion for the format, and for home cinema in general. It's somewhat of a stark contrast to the bullish arrogance certain parties on the opposing side continue to adopt (I refer you to Mike Dunn's comments from CES, and that Bluray PR Group fake trade paper from the show floor as recent examples).


What amuses me is that those on either ‘side` all want the same thing, movies they love in HD. It`s difficult to imagine a peaceful climate of discussion on AVS that we would have got had there been one format. Not that there hasn`t been an upside to there being competition between the formats, but the level of animosity at a place light AVS is nasty in a way that only the anonymity of an internet forum can conjure up.


Correct.

WhatHifi gave a 4* thumbs up to the HD-E1, saying that the player was better than the Blu-Ray offerings from Samsung and Panny. It only lost a star due to firmware not feeling like the finished article (which it won't be of course) and said that it was really waiting for the XE1 as it's 1080p output would look even better. (Erm, right)

The article concluded that HD DVD has the advantage at the moment due to quality and cost of players and the general high quality of releases, but to its credit didn't preach one way or the other.

I don't give WHF much notice these days, but in the format war the opinions of journalists in popular mags are critical and WHF is a popular mag with an uneducated public.

I would probably go with the BR version because I still, in my gut, feel that format has the advantage in the long run. Probably does not matter all that much though as I am beginning to think that both formats may be around for a while.