Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems BR Is the King OF HD.

Golly! That was quick.

OK- so my first thoughts after playing with this for a while.

I get home and unbox the player. Again, Mark, thank you.

And thank you to Ken for coordinating it.

The player physically is a nice unit- a little heavy, and the remote frankly seems a little chintzy but enough of this drivel.

I hook it up to my plasma because its higher res than my projector and thats where I have my kscape setup for comparison. I am using component video into an extron video switcher. This makes it easy for me to flip sources.

I just turn the unit on for any setup and--- I wait. Yes its true, this player is a little slow to get going. But its not that bad and the boot time wouldn't stop me from pursing HD DVD. The onscreen menus are nice and clear. I believe I was looking at them rendered in 1080i.

All setup I go ahead and pop in the Apollo 13 HD DVD- time for lift off!

So Apollo 13 loads up and there are these nifty HD DVD graphics, which are nice but they also show more banding than Id like, but this is just computer graphics.

Then the menu comes up and the experience of using a HD DVD menu is very similar to a regular DVD. There is more motion and they have borrowed some concepts from Mac OS X and Windows Vista. I would call this part of the experience more like DVD 1.5 than 2.0.

So I launch the movie and... well... honestly I am a little disappointed. To me the image looks a little soft and grainy. But I do not want to make any rash judgments so I watch it for 20 minutes or so. I get to the scene when Lovell comes home and tells his family he is going to the moon. I then cue up the same scene on the KScape and pause it and then I can do my A-B comparison.

Now keep in mind the following is my subjective opinion and I am conveying my reactions to an experience.

The difference is stunning. The only way to describe it is the difference we all saw the first time we saw DVD compared to VHS and LD. All the shortcomings of those formats: the noise, the smearing, etc- they all became so apparent when we saw DVD and the DVD image looked so clear and three dimensional. I can tell the HD DVD version of Apollo 13 is probably not the best example of HD DVD but when I go back and forth the DVD version played back on the KScape looks soft, fuzzy, faded, even a little noisy. The biggest difference on this particular scene is the color depth. There is a vibrancy to colors on the HD DVD that the DVD just cannot approach- not in its wildest dreams.

I also bought a copy of Serenity. This is a fun movie. I feel it's "heart" is in the right place. Boy oh boy this must be the reference standard for HD DVD. IMHO this is "The Fifth Element" of this new format. Since that movie is on BRD and the people over at Amazon are mixed on the transfer - maybe The Fifth Element won't be THE reference disc this time around. As far as Serenity goes, the transfer is pristine. This movie has it all for a reference disc: skin tones, good looking people, all kinds of lighting, CGI, interesting natural scenery, etc. Comparing the first scene of this movie between the DVD and HDDVD tells the story- there are space ships launching from Earth and on the HD DVD the image is so clear and pristine that it feels like I can reach inside my plasma and grab them. The DVD by comparison is just like I described on Apollo 13: fuzzy, faded, weak. The most striking differences are the resolution and the color gamut. The HD color space is sooo much wider. The DVD rendition of colors looks much more homogenized. I cannot get over how much more vibrant the colors are on the HD variant.

I have no comments on audio as this is my library tv and I use the included speakers so I am listening in 2.0. Both HD DVDs are DD+ which is a higher bit rate version of DD. Surely this will be an improvement over the DVDs but how much, its hard to know. And surely a True HD soundtrack would be even better- but these discs lack that.

So I now know what I expected to be the case: HD DVD is better than DVD. What I didn't know was by how much. This is the clearest HD I have ever seen. No doubt that the VC-1 format is excellent. I am sure it has its shortcomings like all things, but I have yet to see any artifacts. One thing I do notice when comparing the HD DVD and DVD versions of these films is the HD DVD seems to exhibit a slight bit of what I will call "blue push"- whites and skin tones are slightly cooler. Is this a Toshiba player issue or a HD DVD issue? I think its the player.

Now that I have explored how HD DVD and DVD stack up- I figure lets check out how this player does with a DVD vs the KScape player. Movie of choice: Star Wars, Episode III- Sith. Why? It has actual people in it (even if they are being forced to act stiff!) and it has the benefit of being a very good DVD transfer. The result? I think the Toshiba HD DVD player makes for a very good DVD player! The images are similar. I think the Toshiba player really does have a little of that blue push I mentioned earlier. The result is things look a little more pleasing but I do not think its as accurate a result. Its not a major issue. I would call it even between these two for DVD playback.

So all this being said- I guess the big question is have I changed my opinion. I am sure it comes as no surprise that I have not. All of my marvel and praise above is for the technical merits of the format, and we know thats the last thing the general consumer market cares for. I also think regular DVD can look quite good- so long as you don't put it directly up against HD DVD.

My opinion is based on the viability for these formats in the consumer market. Although I have made a big investment in the K system, that does not affect my opinion because the system makes sense for me- I have a ton of DVDs, this is the best way to organize them and when it comes to kids DVDs- no more lost or misplaced or finger printed discs... And K has the ability to add HD DVD and/ or BRD to their system. They are a member of both working groups. What would be required by their customers would be a software update and the purchase of a player that could read and playback the new format(s). Of course the amount of discs that could be stored would dramatically decrease.

What has changed is the fact that I will now be on the look out for more HD DVD titles that I might acquire for my theater. I expect the differences I saw on my plasma (a 60" sony) to be magnified when I install that 3 chip 1080P DLP PJ in the next few weeks. To date, I have only found a few titles on either HD DVD or BRD that are of any interest to me.

So in short, Mark, you have succeeded in the sense that there is another person buying HD DVDs. And more importantly when I think about where I got this player from I will smile- to me that the best part of HD DVD so far!

best regards,
Jerry

PS- interesting article on why HD DVD will win vs BRD:

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback158.html

I am sure if I dug enough Id find the opposite argument for BRD

PS part 2: there is one place that HD DVD is just as bad as DVD and thats the amount of "security device enclosed" stickers all over the cases. Why is it that I am treated like a criminal by the studios when I pay good money for their product? This kind of attitude eventually gets you into the place the record companies are in. Good tactic: go after your loyal customers. Please, please, please stop making me have to dig out a knife just to play a movie I bought.

Why are you guys getting the HD-XA1 instead of the HD-A2? After reading AVS for some time it sounds like the A2 is a much improved machine albeit not built like a tank. Are you buying it just because of the 5.1 analog outputs?

Hi Jerry, I was "away" yesterday entertaining a guest with HD-DVDs all day so only got to the forum today. Glad the player has arrived and glad you have enjoyed what you see. We saw some pretty nasty HD-DVD yesterday (Waterworld is appaling and should never have been released on a fledling format) but what is clear to see, as you noted, is just how clean and transparent the transfers are - any nastiness is in the master, and not the conversion - so Apollo 13's shortcomings are the source and not the format. The same can not be said for DVD. And once screen sizes start getting bigger you really do appreciate the cleanliness of the image - it takes you so much closer to a theatrical presentation than DVD ever can. Our main feature last night after all the demos was Jarhead - the image was staggeringly good to look at.

I hope you continue to enjoy the player and that HD becomes an itch that you want to scratch regularly

Mark

Wow. Lots to comment on.

4) George. Mark simply wanted us to have an HD DVD player as soon as possible and there may have been supply issues with the A2. On the other hand, despite the obvious improvements in useability, I've come to realize that, for Meridian (non-HDMI ) processor users, the 5.1 output is essential for sound quality. Otherwise, you'll have to make do with DD+ and TruHD soundtracks being decoded and then re-encoded into DTS for pass-out on the TOSLINK...

Mark,
What more can I say but I am inspired to again thank you.

George, VK has it right. VK, lets ask Mark if hes seen these transfers (it seems to me he has) and which is better. I'm telling you that A13 is nice, but Serenity is jaw dropping.

It is also my experience that these plasmas and LCD tvs cheap out on their analog inputs and scaling. With my LCD TV, I once tried my HD TIVO via analog because the HDMI once in a while loses its "hand shake" and the resulting image has a purple cast so I thought analog would solve this- well, the image was much worse- softer and many more scaling/ conversion artifacts. So back to HDMI and its noticeably clearer. I bet if I went HDMI out of the Kscape and HDDVD it would look even better.

Are there any true HD titles yet? Right now Id be happy to take these mixes passed over coax. Is that right that they get turned into DTS?

Btw- I was going to originally say that HD DVD is doomed because it has Waterworld on it! Mark, I know you like movies but really!

best regards,
Jerry

On HD DVD:

• Batman Begins
• End Of Days
• Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
• Phantom Of The Opera
• Superman Returns
• Training Day
• Troy
• V For Vendetta

My info on this came from DanielB's authoritative post earlier in this thread:

VK,
Thanks, I will re-read it. Ohh, I ordered Batman last night.

I saw Superman Returns in the theater and I cant be sure if I liked the movie or not. I want to like the fellow playing Superman, but I keep wanting to see Christopher Reeve. I watched Superman II: The Donner Cut the other night and I truly enjoyed it. He was born to be Superman.

best regards,
Jerry

We looked at Superman Returns yesterday - you cannot fault the pristine nature of the movie or it's transfer to HD, however somebody made a decision somewhere in the chain to raise black levels and on a digital projector the entire film looks kind of flat. I found this immensely disappointing. I imagine it will look faultless on CRT and great on a projector with dynamic iris. Once we get digital projectors with contrast ratios in the 30k:1+ region it will look great. The DVD undoubtedly has the same issue.

We also looked at the original Superman - I haven't seen this film for over a decade and the intro scene on Krypton was mesmerising - it has the old style of filmmaking where they take time to introduce characters and plot. This film is definately showing it's age in the print, but once again what we have is a really good transfer with plenty of detail and generally good picture quality.

I am ashamed to say that I haven't, as yet, looked at Apollo 13 or Serenity. My understanding is that Serenity is reference quality and that the Apollo 13 print is showing it's age a little.

As far as I can I try to avoid demoing chapters of movies, rather I prefer to watch a movie in it's entirety. I have demoed some films so many times now that I can no longer watch the film and that is a shame.

Mark

Virus, I messed up and accidently edited your post. Totally apoligize.

The danger of being logged in as moderator. I got tired of switching back and forth between mod and no mod to prevent this sort of accident.

I hit Edit instead of Quote.

This is what I meant to reply.

If I had to choose between 5.1 analog lossess through a-to-d and d-to-a and dts compressed through all digital path I think I'd choose the later. But I have heard there are issues regarding dts real time re-encoding (on first gen toshibas). Do all the HD formats re-encode for the compressed stuff? Or is it actually recorded on medium. Does blu-ray do it different than HD-DVD? Is this a toshiba (who seems to build almost every HD-DVD out there) only thing?

We tested TruHD through an IA40 yesterday. I found the sound very smooth but a bit veiled. Running digital the sound had clarity but also a slightly digital sound to it. Generally I preferred the digital route but need to do some extended listening to be sure.

We need that HDMI input to the Meridian!

Mark