Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems DSP6000's can't handle high volume? 85-90

Interesting thread. I use DSP5500s which on paper at least aren't that different to the 6000s. They are calibrated (I think -3dB) for surround. When playing Hells Bells (AC/DC again) at 85 (as high as I would ever go and then only to empty the room of unwelcome visitors) the SPL meter peaks at about 106dBC at a distance of ten feet. Sound qualiity is superb with no noticeable distortion. Boundary settings are applied.

Now, I know my hearing is cr*p and at 85 the volume is well above concert level (generally restricted to 90dBC for health and safety reasons). For normal LOUD listening, I find 79 to be quite sufficient and I know I listen loud.

Now of course I am in an English room approx 14' square.

So. What's my point.....? I guess - 1) The Meridians play quite loud enough; 2)If you want a PA system - buy one; 3) RTFM before all goes wrong.

For the record I am totally biased towards Meridian. As for the reps (if that's what they were) I guess its difficult to tell a customer they're f***ed.

106dB is not rock concert levels if thats what your talking about...try 120dB!

My friends practice at 120dB + in a basement

I had two Marshall stacks in my late teens and spent 5 hours a day in recording studios. That's why I'm deaf.

Play anything above 100dB for more than half an hour and your hearing starts to go numb. You then have to turn it up to compensate until eventually you can't hear at all. Having been there - playing at 120dB in a basement is just plain naive.

When I was younger, the louder the music at a rock concert the better (The Ian Gillan Band left my ears ringing for three days). I still go to two to three concerts a month, but prefer to listen and hear what is being played. Too loud and I'll listen from the bar thanks, ear plugs firmly inserted.

I agree with you. I was the same way and when I go to a concert now my ears don't like it that loud any more. I would rather be at home listening on my own system. I'm pretty sure they all have ear plugs while they practice. Its tough to play quietly when a whole rock band is in a basement. I haven't gone to listen in a long time but it is loud and it is just as loud at a concert. 120dB! That was my point.

Incidently, the loudest rock concert ever recorded was The Who at Charlton Athletic Football Ground on 31st May 1976 (previous to that was Deep Purple). They used a 76,000 watt PA and sound levels were indeed recorded as high as 120dB. Pete Townshend is of course well acquainted with tinnitis (permanent ringing in the ears).

I read that Who concert had peaks at 140dB.

Loudest scream by a crowd indoors is 128.9dB! Guiness Book of World Records.

They say 110dB for rock concerts but that must be sustained levels. I've been to many concerts and it is way more than 110dB peaks. My ears don't shut down with my home system when I hit 110dB peaks. I was at a concert this past New Years and my ears were shutting down with the first song. Then ringing for hours after.

Ron

I wish I was there, however I did see them at Wembley two years later.

A little clip from the University of York ...

Hearing loss is insidious and permanent and by the time it is measurable it is too late. Therefore in order to protect hearing sensitivity and acuity you must be proactive in protecting it. Unfortunately it is not possible to eliminate the risk of hearing loss from noise because some people are more susceptible than others.

The first strategy is to avoid exposure to excess noises in the first place. Although 90dB sound pressure level (SPL) is taken as a damage threshold, if the noise exposure causes ringing in the ears, especially if the ringing lasts longer than the length of exposure, then damage may be occurring, even if the sound level is less than 90dBSPL.

There are a few situations where potential damage is more likely:

The first is when listening to recorded music over headphones as even small ones are capable of producing damaging sound levels.
The second is when one is playing music, with either acoustic or electric instruments, as these are also capable of producing damaging sound levels, especially in small rooms with a "live" acoustic.
In both cases the levels are under your control and so can be reduced, however there is an effect called 'the acoustic reflex' which reduces the sensitivity of your hearing when loud sounds occur. This effect combined with the effects of temporary threshold shifts can result in a sound level increase spiral, where there is a tendency to increase the sound level "to hear it better" which results in further dulling etc. The only real solution is to avoid the loud sounds in the first place. However, if this situation does occur then a rest away from the excessive noise will allow some sensitivity to return. However this rest time must be significant, e.g. greater than an hour for mild exposure and more than proportionally longer for heavier exposures.

There are sound sources over which one has no control, such as bands, discos, night clubs, and power tools. In these situations it is a good idea either to limit the noise dose or, better still, use some hearing protection. For example, one can keep a reasonable distance away from the speakers at a concert or disco. It takes a few days, or even weeks in the case of hearing acuity, to recover from a large noise dose so one should avoid going to a loud concert, or night club, every day of the week!

It is often the case that bar and security workers can be seen wearing small in-ear plugs at loud venues. These can be purchased cheaply for a few pounds from most pharmacies. These in-ear hearing protectors are very useful if you know you are going to be exposed to the high sound levels you might find at a gig or club and are also available with a 'flat' attenuation frequency response. These are little more expensive than the simple ear plugs available from pharmacies (around �10) but do have the overall effect of making everything sound quieter (as if the volume knob has been turned down) rather than just 'muffled' (as if you've put your head under a pillow). They are unobtrusive (obviously helping to maintain that all important aura of 'cool' - unlike construction work ear defenders!) and reduce the sound level by a useful amount (typically 15dB-20dB) allowing conversation to take place at the speech levels required to compete with the music.

You may think that this isn't practical if you are in-house sound engineer at a popular studio or venue, after all. they don't really help to create a balanced mix. However, more specially designed (and more expensive) hearing protection is often worn by live sound engineers and more and more pop musicians are resorting to on-stange in-ear monitoring - because it gives a more convenient, personal and accurate foldback mix and helps to attenuate the on-stage volume level.

Your hearing is essential for the enjoyment of music and for communicating and socialising with other people. It is irreplaceable. It is worth looking after. Perhaps it's time to turn down the personal stereo...?"

One last entry. This is written by a girl of just 21 years of age.

"Hi, I'm 21 and have recently diagnosed myself with 'Tinnitus'...... Grrrrrrrr that word! I've just read every single page of other peoples suffering and it has really brightened me up. Mine is definitely from a few years of constant clubbing, I used to go out every weekend without fail to extremely loud clubs and festivals around the UK, which is a really big passion of mine.

My tinnitus started about 4 months ago.... One night I went to bed watched a bit of TV then switched it off, after settling down I could hear a buzzing/ringing noise I didn't have a clue where it was coming from so I got out of bed I put my ear against every bit of my bedroom wall and floor thinking it was noisy pipes! I managed to get to sleep somehow after thinking myself silly with explanations.

After a week of this annoying ringing (more noticeable in my left ear) that appeared at quiet times I went to the doctors who said he can see a white bits in my ears he prescribed me eardrops and sent me on my bike! They did nothing and I was going CRAZY. I had never heard of Tinnitus and after 5 weeks of pining for it to stop I realised it was serious and booked an appointment with a better Dr and done a bit of researching where I found out about this cruel ringing and the possible causes. The Dr said the white bits were scarring around my eardrums possibly caused from my obsession with clubbing! She's referring me to the ENT specialist, I`m still waiting for an appointment. I've stopped thinking 'I hope they can do something' I've accepted it now to live with.

During the 4 months I've been experiencing Tinnitus I've never felt so low and worthless in my life, I thought my world has ended. Two weeks ago I was at my lowest point I used to cry so much I had the world's soggiest pillows!! Everything felt numb. I FORCED myself to snap out of it and think positive.

Even though it's early days I've accepted it and am now learning to cope and live with it. I remind myself I'm lucky compared to those out there with serious illnesses, just think of all them terrorist and natural disasters that's happened.... It could have been one of us, we are very lucky to have just Tinnitus! Think positive guys look at all the good points in your lives.

AND WEAR EARPLUGS CLUBBING!! You can buy specially designed ones for nightclubs allowing you to still hear the music, I bought some for �7 from a musical instrument shop that protect me from even more damage, I'm looking to buy an even better pair which cost around �30 there's loads of websites in fact too many, I'm in a dilemma

Perhaps the problem is that he seems to have the old D6000s rather than the newer DSP6000s.

The Gentleman "Dave" who has the D6000's appears to be suffering from "way-to-good-a-deal-itus".

The cause and effect of which in summary; has forced him to question his purchase, and the skill set with which he was addressing the symptoms.
When I had growing pains with my first Upsampling Disc player, my dealer asked me to listen to the same 21 second passage until I "heard the music". I struggled.

My reaction was to turn it up... Still nothing.

He suggested to me that the gear was lost on me. He told me that I was wasting my money, and he could not in good conscience sell me the Upsampling player, if I could not hear the difference. I became hell-bent to prove him wrong; and for this purpose, he lent me the gear, "for as long as it takes" (took).

At home, I set it up, (probably incorrectly) and strained to hear the distinction.

Nothing!

Later the dealer visited,(presumably to collect the gear). I showed him around, and he grinned like a Pediatrician about to remove a sliver from my toe.

He inserted a disc and checked some settings, walking to the corner, he turned my left speaker one inch outward. He stepped back and siged. Then he moved my right speaker back a smidge. He pressed play.

I listened half-heartedly, smug in the belief that he was playing the DVD version of the CD he sent me home with.
I nearly lost my brain. Everything flowed from the speaker like honey. I heard instruments, not a Disc player. I heard Music and not gear. I moved about the room. The sweet spot seemed everywhere.

It was amazing, and yet it was all me. I was hearing the notes. I wrote a check for the gear at once; And since that day I have bought 56,000. dollars US +, in gear from them.

Eventhough I quibble now and again, I pretty much pay full price, because their experience was/is invaluable, and everytime they prove their worth, by going above the call.

No moral here... Just a story about my deep respect for someone elses ears, and experience, and how this can save you some time, and if you need repairs, it can save you a chunk of change as well.

Coincidentally, I now travel (like him) with ear-plugs to most places. (Basketball Games, Soccer, Concerts, Festivals, Trains, Planes, etc...)

Definitely protect your ears, or if you don't you may be sorry.
Looking on the bright-side; You can be much happier with far cheaper gear if you don't take care of your hearing.

Ultimately I humbly suggest (like so many before me), that "Dave" purchase some PA equipment like the latest Mackie or Fender Gear.

With sympathy, if "Dave" cannot hear the merits of 96/24, or Upsampling that's really fine. Upsampling is lost on many of us, particularly when the gear is set-up wrong.

The fact that he listens so loudly, indicates that he most assuredly may have hearing issues. Pursuing the nuance of M gear in all of its glory and expense, and at his age and condition, may be a fools game for someone who cannot decipher between distortion and Amplifier clipping.

And Credit is due all of the astute souls who have suggested that Cerwin Vega-esque, College gear is really the most appropriate for the college party, and for perhaps for this user.

In the end, if the flavor of your favorite Bubbly is Grape Soda, there is really no need to tie-up good cash on Krug. Spend it elsewhere... For your efforts to find a resolution on this forum without hearing/listening to the subtleties, may be throwing good money after bad.

In earnest; I recommend you dump your M Gear for something sexy, but far less costly. Like Bang & Olufsen.

Cheers

Bernie

A couple of things DJones :

Are they D6000's or DSP6000's?

What M&K speakers did you run before upgrading? I use to use a full s150 system with a classe amp.

I find it very troubling that not one of the M technicians even checked the level calibration of your system... That would be my 2nd step in testing after cabling.

Bernie,

Great post !!!

I was thinking of closing this thread, because it seemed to be going no where. But I'm glad I didn't.