Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems DSP6000's can't handle high volume? 85-90

I got the G91a because I had to have a processor that would run the new upgraded DSP6000's at 96/24 (the 518 would not). In running the new upgrades at 96/24 and then with the 518 at 48/16, I can rally not tell any difference in the sound?? until they go into digital clipping after 20-30 minutes, the sound is basically the same? I could not tell the diff with my eyes closed if someone was switching between the G91a and 518.

Who upgraded the speakers? They are very expensive to upgrade. This whole thing sounds suspect. $3800 sounds very cheap. If Meridian did the upgrade they would be fully tested and should be as good as factory new.

See my other post on your center. I highly suspect your drivers are damaged. Most folks refuse to ship 5500's and up unless they have factory boxes. Damaged drivers will crackle and probably overload the amp.

By the way, I forgot you can do a rough check of each driver without removing it.

Remove the grill and power off the amp.

Gently slide the paper cone in an out use your thumb and index finger from each hand for even pressure (4 points around the center). It should slide freely like it was floating on air. You have lots of drivers to compare to know what a good one feel like. They should all be the same.
Check the midrange too. But don't do this on the tweeter.

Also try this it after you ran them to the point of crackling. If they a are slightly off alignment they may get worse as they warm up. And as they warm up they rub harder and draw more current and get more out of alignment.

2 Meridian techs, 1 Area Salesman, 1 Dealer listened to the upgraded speakers today and said that my room is too "open" (family room with 3 walls and an opening to a sun room and kitchen) and that the DSP6000's going into "protective mode" is what they are suppossed to do. I need 7000's to be able to listen to them at my desired volume level in my room. They removed my upgrades (because it is not prudent to spend $5,000 upgrading them when they will not play at mt desired volume) and put back my old D6000 boards.

Then they did not work (the master speaker had a major "buzzing" that none of them could fix)! So now, they took one of my D6000s to send it to Atlanta. They say there will be no cost to me.

Bottom Line: If you have a room that is not professionally set up (like most normal humans), you cannot have DSP6000's (96/24 or 48/16) and expect to play them at volume higher than 75 without them going into protective mode?

I'll bet there is not one dealer out there that would tell this to a potential buyer. You can pay $23,000 for brand new DSP6000s (yes, Meridian will still make 6000's if requested), but they won't play long at any volume higher than 75 unless you have an enclosed, acoustically appropriate room?

I did have them hooked up to a Furman IT Reference 15 whereas the 6000''s require 20?

Is the Meridian world really this complicated?

Djones1915,

You just like really loud music and I suggest you look for something more efficient (plays louder with one watt) that can handle a lot of power and get very powerful amplifiers. You probably want SPL's above 110db and that requires efficient speakers. Try to find something that plays in excess of 90db with one watt and can be driven by 400 watts or more. That way you have some headroom.

Ron

Again, I would like to thanks everyone for your help and insight. I thought I was getting a great deal on eBay (2 D6000s, 1 518, 1 500CD) for $3,800, but so far, I have spent $4,800 on a G91a I don't need now, $2,900 for a DSP6000 center that does not work, $1,150 for Furman conditioner that has the wrong amps (15 vs. 20) and about $2,000 on other cables, power cords, etc.

I am 49 years old, and am basically ashamed of myself for this (I am not rich, so this hurts). I jumped in thinking I was going to build a word class audio / video system going the pre-owned route, but I did not do my homework first. I am learning alot from you guys.

I don't get it. Why protective mode and the walls in your house cause the speakers to overheat. When the 6k were upgraded to the latest version didn't they come from Atlanta. I am sorry to say this but this all sound very fishy. Is it possible to remove the cards from 6k on site? Who's your dealer?
If you bought the G91A used you paid too much for it.
I hope you didn't buy your stuff from some dude in Czech Republic.

It is true you can have a dead or large room to drive, but I still think something is setup very wrong or something is broken. Usually standard construction (Plaster/Blueboard or Sheetrock) produces a very live room (meaning easy to drive) unless it was built out of concrete or acoustically treated material. Now you may have some huge bass or imaging problems in that room but your adhoc descriptions of the problem makes that very hard to tell.

The fact they suggested DSP7000 to solve the problem is very suspect.

Try searching this forum (which has been around for 6 years) for "Protective mode" and see what you come up with.

This is list of problems you need to sort out.

1) Calibrate the thing and report offsets (you can still use the G91 and you can confirm things with just the speakers you have), you have to tell the G91 you are using 18bit speakers. If your offsets are greater than +5 then you do probably have a hard room to drive. I play movies at 85 on DSP5500 (6000 little brother) all the time and CD's 76 (source makes a HUGE) difference. WHAT ARE YOU PLAYING. Tell us the CD or DVD and Track !!!
2) Check ALL your drivers like I said earlier, one bad driver could kill everything.
3) Let's say you are close to calibrated already and your offsets are not that out of whack and your drivers are all good. And you still find your up in the 90db range. Are you doing this to get the bass impact? Don't even think of discussing this topic until you follow #1 and #2. If so you probably have classic bass problems which could be horrible in a large contemporary room (of any construction). This could be solved by different speaker positions, different sitting position, different speakers (like a DSP7000 because they use front firing woofers instead or side) or simply adding a strategically placed sub (oh my gosh a cheap easy solution).

Also please stop bad mouthing the DSP6000`s when you are obviously a novice with Meridian equipment and very possibly a dealer that does not understand things either. The fact that he sold you an upgrade and a G91 to solve the SPL problem says a lot. And the fact that he suggested DSP7000`s to solve an SPL problem (which very likely would not) or that DSP7000 might solve a bass problem (which they might) but 1 or 2 subs might be needed in that room which is MUCH cheaper and probably much more flexible and effective. You need a little luck or good room design for a full range speaker to deliver the right amount of bass. Switching to DSP7000`s to solve the bass problem would be like throwing the dice.

Hi DJones

There is something very wrong going on here. I owned 6000s for 2.5 years, and although my room was smaller, I can't imagine them running out of steam. I couldn't ever get the volume above 75 with any CD, nor 80 with a DTS DVD soundtrack without seriously hurting my ears, and I could only endure that for a few minutes.

Over the years on this forum, I've rarely heard of home visits in the US by Meridian staff (not to say that they don't happen), but I'm most surprised to hear that you had two Meridian techs, and a total of four guys coming round to assess your problem, all the more so over a set of upgrades to used gear. The suggestion that an upgrade to DSP7000s might cure the problem seems puzzling. The spec sheets would suggest that DSP7000s won't manage any more volume than 6000s, and if you are already way off beam in what the 6000s can achieve, I doubt that the 7000s will do much better (assuming 6000s working properly. The 6ks are rated as max >114dB spl @ 1m, and the 7ks at max >112dB spl @ 1m).

Your Denon is quoted at 170w per channel. The 6000s are 4x75W per channel so there's no real discrepancy in volume to be expected there. The 6000s should have protection circuitry which shuts them down if they are being over driven, so there ought to be no problem with distorted sound. If the speakers are overheating so obviously to the touch, it suggests that there are circuit faults of some kind. I find it odd that the suggested solution to a piece of equipment suspected of having a fault should be to upgrade it, and indeed to buy more kit. I may be wrong, but I think DSP speaker boards go back to Meridian for 96/24 upgrade. Did all three of the speaker rear panels go back to Atlanta, or has the local dealer swapped out the boards at his premises? Were you given official Meridian certificates of authenticity for the upgrade work?

I'd recommend that you speak directly to the guys at Meridian Atlanta, and do a serial number check for the 96/24 upgrades which were done. I'd also ask what their tech guys (who visited you) made of the situation. My over riding feeling here is that there are questions to be asked about the dealer support which you are receiving, but do let us know how you get on after calling Meridian directly.

Cheers

George

Hi Djones,

My D6000's have just come back from Meridian UK after being upgraded to DSP 96/24 - so I can enjoy the benefits of upscaling etc. They didn't come with either a certificate or 96/24 sticker (and that's the bit that's really important ) but they did have a nice high "electronics" serial number on the back. They were a complete back panel change (including the lower power supply part).

My room isn't as large as yours but does have an open extension - indeed one speaker is phyically in that part of the room. I've never played that high for any length of time - it's loud.

I wonder if someone's tweaked the bass or treble levels, or the boundary compensation and that's tipping the balance.

I can't stress enough the need to at least try the calibration - playing at 87, calibration level, I think you should get close to 75dB at say 10feet from a single speaker (start with the one furthest away from the open wall). If necessary get closer to the speaker to see if you can get this level out of it. If not you'e got a speaker problem.

If you do then it's still possibly a set-up problem or your room really is sucking up all the power. I had a sub which calibrated perfectly but wouldn't play until I found it's little red button (which doesn't exist on the 6ks).

Having tried 7k's in my room I don't think they'd make a big difference in level. The 6k sound was fuller and deeper to my ears and I wasn't aware of running them any lower in level setting. Of course their temperature sensitivity might be less than the 6k's so maybe that's a factor we can't judge.

Meridian equipment is complicated - at first it seems almost impossibly so - but once you get it going the rewards are great. Don't give up too soon.

regards

Chris

I think Djones wants sustained SPL well over 110db. He just likes it very loud and I don't think DSP7000's will solve his problem. He needs DJ speakers with high efficiency that can play very loud. I was like that when I was younger. My first system had Cerwin Vegas and I could get concert levels of SPL in my house. The siding on the house outside would shudder with bass slams. In fact I could hit 126db SPL levels with those speakers. That was a bass slam that I measured with a very fast meter. 126db bass! They were 101db efficient with one watt and I had amplifiers that could hit well over 400 watts per channel on peaks. Talk about loud! I could watch movies where the dialog was around 110db and action scenes were sustained 115db plus with peaks well over 120db. I'm surprised my hearing is still OK. I find 110db peaks loud now.

Ron

Ron,

Keep in mind that DSPs are way more efficient wattage wise due to digital cross overs and he has an equivent of around 1000 watts per speaker.