Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion HiFi & HT Chat Cleaning the bits

Dear all,

Right now I have: Netgear > Muon > MS600 > 5200SE.
I'm thinking of a reasonably economical SQ upgrade. Which might make better sense: a good network switch, or stay with Netgear but follow it with a reclocker with a good linear PSU?
Please share recommendations and experience, (DIY kits included), or pointer if this has been discussed at length before.

springlike

Hi,

The packetized data being transported across the network does not need cleaning, if there was a issue you would be hearing significant dropouts and/or clicking from your speakers not a change in SQ.

Arguably the quality of the SPDIF stream from the MS600 could be improved, for this I'd recommend replacing it with an 818.3 if funds allow.

That said investing in acoustic treatments for your listening room, is where I'd put my money first.

Regards,
Carl

Hi Carl,

I was thinking about jitter. It's not so bad as bits actually dropping out. Yes an 818v3 would be nice but beyond my funds. Is there an emoji with headphones? No matter.

springy

I would replace the Netgear router with an 8Switch.

FWIW, in due course, I plan on a major upgrade for my own DSP5200SE's with 2 x Theta NR cables.

As Carl says, don’t waste your money on switches they make no difference at all. I am not convinced worrying about the SPDIF stream will make any difference either.

Room treatment/correction, will make big differences.

Aren’t you saving up for a Trinnov processor?

No difference at all? Hans B explains all this far better than I can, but the basic idea is that small timing jitters have audible effects. I am sure they do. We're not in Trinnov territory here, or anywhere close. Just looking for sweeter sound that can be afforded.

+1 for room treatment. I’ve just added a couple of GIK bass trap/diffusers behind my speakers. I would describe the change as allowing the lower bass to catch up with the mid bass and clearing chestiness from vocals, whilst still keeping the low bass when it’s there.

My next tweak is going to be trying a Russ Andrews mini purifier. If it doesn’t make any obvious improvement I can send it back after 60 days, so no risk (already use his power cables for the speakers as I’ve had them since my 500 series kit days).

For met the biggest tweak / upgrade where the room acoustics. A thick rug and some sealing treatment made a lot of difference. That together with the right speaker placement. Both are not easy as they need a lot of tweaking. But there are some cheap ways to give it a try (blankets etc)
Lots of things can make a difference, using a netfilter or not, decoupling or coupling of your speakers / gear. Shielded power cables and the way you place your cables. Pole checking your gear and matching the results etc etc

If i'm not mistaken, the problem with Ethernet is not the package's / bits but the noise that's added by the switches, router to the signal that makes its way to the analog signal when it passes the DAC.
I always remembered one remark from a very old Elector magazin "an audio device is as good as its power supply". There is perhaps something to win by replacing the crappy switching power supply of the MS600?
You could try a cleaner power supply on the network switch if you have one lying around. There are also some "normal" better and tweak-able switches like the Cisko Meraki that can be bought for not to much money on the second hand market.
As for the purifiers, they are supposed to be designed to get rid of that noise. Some say an optical cable does the same.

It al depends on your situation, believe, hearing, taste, the depth of your pockets and how deep you are willing to stick your hands in them for a certain (small?) result, the willingness to neutrally try things and lots of other different variables.
That can make that one person says it makes a lot of difference and the other thinks its an inaudible piece off b. or snakeoil

If there is a ‘noise’ issue, all the manufacturers of these ‘audiophile switches’ have to do is show a before and after measurement of the noise whilst using their devices.

None of them do, in fact they try to change the subject repeatedly when pressed on this.

I think that a well thought out design can make a (little) difference by keeping things as clean as possible. Same for using a good power supply instead of the noisy cheap switching types.
That is a part of what makes the difference between audio and better audio.

As for switches, I like to believe that they are commonly not build with that separation from noise in mind as its not important for PC use. A better separation from noise sources seams reasonable to me and the technical implementation isn't rocket science nor expensive. Although the prices of audiophile switches seem to suggest otherwise.

As for the measurements? I don't know, but I see a lot of serious demo's of power-conditioners and power cords with "power sniffers" which measure some radio frequencies in a non excising unit of measurement and some good ones where equalled in sniffer measurement by a 10 dollar EMC filter from AliExpress.
I own a decent power conditioner and it didn't do anything noticeable on my previous high end setup. But it does a good job with the 818 but limits the performance of the DSP7200's...

The "ill give it a try" way for me is to buy things for a price that I can also easily resell it for which makes the experience more neutral for me.

I'm not free of assumptions. From what I've read in the 90's and found reasonable was that computers in general and powered by a switching PSU generate a lot of noise and weren't suitable for good audio production. Until I came across a dirt cheap MC200 and it thought me differently after trying it.

While I agree that speaker placement and interaction with the room are most important, I take issue with the bits-are-bits nay-saying concerning interconnects and filters. No, you don't need to "clean" the bits themselves, but you do need to prevent anomalies like RF/EMI from impacting your DAC if you want to hear more of the fine detail in recorded music. I've enjoyed wonderful M systems over the years without realizing what properly set up gear can actually deliver when the various types of digital noise are eliminated.

And there are very inexpensive ways to do this. Instead of upgrading my 218 to 818v3, I thought to try a $50 Raspberry Pi along with a decent power supply, loaded it with a quiet operating system (Audiolinux in my case - $199 for a multi-device perpetual license) and enabled the Diretta network protocol ($100, also perpetual) to leapfrog what I previously considered to be excellent.

I know that this is blasphemy for the majority of audiophiles because I've been lambasted left, right and center on certain forums filled with self-satisfied experts who already know everything. -But, having heard what my DSP9s are capable of when given everything captured by the recording engineers, I can't go back and am sometimes compelled to answer a question like this. If I'm not dismissed as delusional, and people here want more information, I can share what years of experimentation have taught me.