Spoon technique success. Tried a few spoons - make sure nice and smooth and fairly thin - mine the one that worked was around 1/2 an inch in end diameter, just under 1/8 inch thick

First one terrifying Second one little better Third one -- Sixth one OK now I have this. That said tread carefully I always felt like a quick slip could occur at any moment and it would be a disaster

Thanks Carl and the Old Sage