Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion HiFi & HT Chat Power cord discussion (spin off from DSP8000XE topic)

Did anyone actually believe them?

Yes under most circumstances I generally did and still do. If I have any issues that anything more than a well designed mains cable can't address then I prefer to tackle the cause of the problem. All my cables are reasonably priced custom made cables with both foil and braided screens connected to earth at both sides of the cable in a BS approved fire retardant outer covering so are suitable for in wall use if so desired. They are of sufficient size to carry more than enough current and are still flexible enough to be easy to route and conceal. I don't think that you need any more (They are almost certainly overkill as it is) and I also don't think that it follows the more you spend on a component the more you need to spend on a cable.

I am not sure why gauge has been selected as a particular metric in this case however as 18 gauge is more than adequate enough to carry more current than the connectors are rated at and the components can actually draw. There are much more vital metrics to judge a cable on than gauge (Provided it is adequate which in this case 18 gauge is) such as capacitance, impedance and resistance. I defy anybody to tell the difference in real world performance between my cables and some of the more esoteric ones in anything more than looks and price alone. I can't even tell the difference between mine and the supplied standard ones if truth be told.

How refreshing for someone to be talking sensibly about mains cables. A greater, theoretical, concern than current capacity is all the hash (and mains borne signalling by power network operators) that can ride along with the 50 or 60Hz that is what you really want is sent by. However, the impedance of mains transformers in your equipment, together with AC rectification and the smoothing/filtering associated with that render even that consideration a largely theoretical concern.

However, as always, if exotic cables make you feel good then that is all that matters. As consumers we consume as we see fit (within the law I hope).

I only used the phrase “off-the-shelf 18 gauge” to reference cheap, generic cords which do not support the dynamic and low frequency capabilities of even entry-level M speakers. Maybe that is about a lack of filtering possible hash on the mains, and has nothing to do with gauge. I don’t know -but even you replaced the standard supplied ones for some reason.

When they announce a new flagship (with massive power supplies) costing more than $100,000, you’d think that they would pay some attention to what many of us have discovered over the years, like they have apparently done with new feet designed to be more than the simple pucks or spikes of past models.

A friend of mine purchased and absolutely loved the Acoustic Revive 777 low frequency generator from Japan. Basically you position it at the same height but some distance away from the speakers , facing the sound stage. simply turn it on and it cleans the air and makes the music sound better...

He urged me to buy one so I did. I could not tell whether there was a difference because each time we used it, my entire family started feeling nauseous and getting headaches so I returned it. The unit recreates the Schumann frequency and I have since read that a numbed of people buy these for their bedrooms as it helps them sleep better - but sadly it wasn't for us!

Turning back to power leads, when I purchased my 7200SEs , I went the whole hog and spent a fortune on power cables, interconnects, electromagnetic blah blah conditioners, cones / feet etc. The noise floor was very low but I couldn't tell whether this was the speakers or aided by the cables. Anyhow, I recently sold my 7200SEs for a conventional amp / speaker set up and managed to trade in most of my power leads/conditioners/ interconnects at 80% what I paid for them - dealer stating the demand is still high for such items.

I have retained one power block and a couple of the expensive Nordost cables but otherwise am using £10 interconnects and standard wall plugs. In my new set up I would say the noise floor is slightly higher but the music is all the more enjoyable.

For me it is better to invest in good quality recordings which will result in better sound at all hi fi price points.
Sorry for hijacking the discussion away from the exciting new 8000XEs!

I find your post contradictory. Despite Meridian's advice you seem to have acquired some very good cables that, with their screening and shielding, seem to do all that is essential. I don't know who you think is advocating excessive expenditure on power cords. For myself, I want the best result for the cheapest price.

I believe that the best cables not only supply sufficient current, but act as filters to mains noise (as opposed to purely RFI noise induced in the cable). Shunyata appear to go even further with their most expensive mains cables and say they can provide additional current on instantaneous peak demands, over and above what the mains socket can deliver!

Something else worth bearing in mind is that high transient speed demands from the mains supply increase the resistance (more accurately, the impedance) seen by the unit drawing the power due to the skin effect where the electrons only move close to the surface of the conductor as the changing current induces a magnetic field that opposes the movement of electrons, therefore having overly thick cables (with larger circumferences) can be helpful. I believe Shunyata use hollow, wide diameter wires and PS Audio use three wires of varying thickness for this reason.

I’ve never understood how someone would invest large sums on active speakers designed by Bob Stuart and the engineers and yet disagree with these same engineers about the need for expensive power cables.

BS was asked at a factory tour this question. He replied that the power supply work was done inside (words to that effect). Assumptions are made that noise passes through the entire process. I’m no EE but I think that’s a huge assumption. Low dropout regulators can clean up DC voltage thoroughly, easily and cheaply. I’ve read the Shunyata spin on their website and found it utter tosh. I’m no EE though.

Admittedly there were slow off the mark regarding linear power supplies but the are pros and cons to SMPS and LPSs with LPSs apparently acting as a filter. One trend is hybrid, “tuned” power supplies (Antipodes). For me this has much more credibility than some of the marketing I’ve read from cable manufacturers.

I read the initial comment that - how can M be so dumb, do they expect us to believe them? If you don’t why are you spending this money on their engineering? Free world though, well less so now but mostly.

I think you made a similar comment previously and my response then was, much as I admire Bob Stuart, if he said that power cables don't make a difference, he's wrong. A simple listening test shows power cables make a difference on the DSP's. A genius is still a genius, but that doesn't mean they get everything right all the time.

In the nicest possible way, if you not an engineer, then I'm not sure you're the best person to judge whether what Shunyata say is utter tosh or not. The skin effect, for example, is very real and using wider diameter cables as a solution isn't just posturing, it is proven mathematically.

Please distinguish between theoretically possible effects and those that individuals may or may not be able to discern. In my view it is just plain insupportable to insist that, because a theoretical view can demonstrate a potential effect, that it matters (or should) to everyone. It matters to those to whom it matters but please do not assert that it must or should matter to everyone - any more than asserting that it doesn't or shouldn't matter to anyone. People derive pleasure and satisfaction in all sorts of ways and (provided it is legal - that's how a society works) one should not, in my view, insist that something is so. These things (thank goodness) are often very subjective. Thanks to free markets individual preferences, if enough people agree, are catered for. Vivent les differences!

You invest in Bob Stuart but he’s wrong? You’re informed enough to conclude that? Stating a simple listening test shows is rather a big claim. They are thousands who will disagree on that point alone and no doubt bet money. Then we’d get into different vs better.

You don’t need to be an EE to conclude the Shunyata stuff is bull, I know enough about electricity, I also have a good idea of how much I don’t know. Have you actually read their stuff? Some of it is embarrassing. Collective hysteria can only go so far. I have a modest knowledge of power as it relates to HIFI, I tried to hint at that.

I’d like to think I have an open mind, I try things, I just bought two network filters to try, I’m open. I’ll not be a fashion victim though. I’ve spent too much on Townshend isolation but I get the theory an believe I hear it. I wouldn’t presume to guide others there though.

People spend money on all kinds of stuff, my concern is that misinformation/ hysteria misguides people.

It’s refreshing to see a few comments above to confront the conventional wisdom here. Yes I am a broken record. I will try Shunyata power, probably on the K50 first. I will try ENO. I hope they haven’t gone under when I want my money back though.

I’ve also built my own power cables, have VH Audio flavour 4, Missing Link. I even have a cryogenically treated BNC cables. The record is stuck.

That was my point, it's not just theoretical, it is supported by real-life listening. So many of us have heard the difference that it can't be dismissed out of hand, as some people appear wanton to do.

I don't think everyone should care, but equally, people shouldn't say it doesn't make a difference simply because the difference doesn't matter to them.