Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion HiFi & HT Chat Matching Atmos Speakers for existing Meridian DSP Speakers

Hi,

Looking for some advice regarding a special request: Currently i am building a Meridian 5.1 surround-system with DSP5200SL as front speakers (L/C/R), but for future expansions I am planning to use a Atmos / DTS:X system.
One possible option would be a Meridian 271 connected to my L/C/R/SL/SR-Speakers through SpeakerLink. For the height speakers I would use a Meridian 258 (eight channel power amp) and 3rd party passive speakers. I had this idea because I can't afford all height speakers from Meridian.

Which manufacturer of in-wall speakers would be most suitable in view of tonality for my existing Meridian speakers?

Thanks for your advice.

I am in the process of doing a similar thing to you. I have concluded that the height speakers need not be sophisticated as they supply very limited information and one's brain is very distracted by the visual information on screen when they do. Purists may well disagree (and especially people who make or supply loudspeakers) but the reality as far as I am concerned is that sides, rears and height speakers can be much less high fidelity than the fronts. I have 5200SEs at the front and 3300s for sides and rears and some passive Mordaunt Shorts for the 4 ceiling speakers. The 3300s are undoubtedly overkill and are just me being a little purist. In my previous cinema I had (passive) mission dipoles for sides and rears and they were fully adequate for the limited duty they fulfill sonically speaking (the bass signals were being routed to subwoofers).

To have a fully matching system (eg DSP8000SEs front, sides and rears) would give one a very nice feeling (and why shouldn't life be about nice feelings) but my ears and brain absolutely do not justify it - they are just not that good, especially if I am watching a film rather than listening to music and trying to believe I am actually in a concert hall.

I respectfully disagree with Longitude0's answer to the OP's question. Based upon Longitude0's gear list in his signature, while he does own some very nice gear, he doesn't actually own an immersive audio capable pre-processor. Ergo he also must not have the several pairs of height speakers arrayed properly in front of and behind the main listening rows as per Atmos recommendations. So I'm not really understanding why he chose to weigh in here.

When properly decoded a great object based Atmos or DTS-X Bluray or 4k UHD soundtrack clearly benefits from the continuity of similarly voiced, similarly capable height and surround speakers. You want any adjacent pair of speakers (whether that adjacent pair being considered is in the horizontal or the vertical) to be able to form and float a believable image between them. Anyone arguing that a pair of mismatched in-ceiling speakers or the crap angled "Atmos modules" meant to be sited on top of your mains and bounce their output off a flat ceiling is reflective of best practice has been sorely misled. And like the first time the owner of a low mounted horizontal center channel (me!) hears the ideal identical vertical LCR front speaker trio and realizes how much better that works (Also me!!!), matching the overhead speakers to the mains and surrounds pays similar dividends.

Unfortunately Meridian doesn't currently appear to be investing in creating new immersive audio capable processor and loudspeaker products to match up with their existing active DSP loudspeakers. So I'm not really sure just what the way forward is for heavily invested Meridian HT fans. For me it has meant largely leaving the fold. At least in respect to the gear now being used in our music and theater "big rig". First the five DSP loudspeakers went for 5 identical ATC actives from their pro audio line-up. Then the 861v4 LPS was recently traded out for a current immersive audio capable Anthem pre-pro. And now I'm awaiting the arrival of four passive "install versions" of the ATC SCM12i pro monitors. They sport hard points on the rear to support wall or ceiling mounting and share the same tweeter and a similar mid-woofer to our five bed speakers. The new loudspeakers will mount on purpose made heavy duty K&M mounts and be driven by a pair of Meridian 557 power amps (the last Meridian pieces left in the room). The end result should be about as ideal a 5.1.4 single seating row install as is possible in my modestly sized dedicated music and theater room. We shall see...

Vince, You could not have known this as I have not yet updated my equipment list, but, as I said in my opening remark, I am in the process of doing something similar to the OP. The project is not yet finished but I do have a Marantz immersive processor which does Atmos etc and I do have 4 ceiling speakers disposed as recommended for Atmos and the like. However, the thrust of what I was trying to say is that out and out sound quality is not that crucial for surround speakers, never mind heights. Their purpose is to fill in ambience while one's attention is focussed on the screen and the front speakers. The bandwidth available to surrounds and heights is not very extended, nor does it need to be, and unless you are particularly keen on ignoring the main sound channels and concentrating on the emissions from the ambience channels alone then why worry? It is the overall effect that one can receive that can fool the brain into an experience not otherwise available and the surrounds and the heights do not need to be that brilliant in order to achieve that.

Of course, that observation is not very relevant if one derives pleasure from knowing one has a top notch beautifully matched system. I would just advise the OP to think carefully about the end result being sought (beauty is in the eye of the beholder). All I can say is that I bought my 3300s because it seemed the right thing given my front speakers. I do like the look of them. Sonically, though, in my view I have wasted my money. I could and should have continued with my Mission 77DS surrounds and their Rotel power amp. I decided that would be even more true for heights, given the duty they fulfill, which is why I have gone for good but modest ceiling speakers, passive through a 4 channel amp. Nick

This may have been true at the time of original Dolby Pro Logic but is less applicable in a Dolby Atmos context .I would say find a good dealer (there are a few that lurk here) and get a demo.

Even if it means biding your time, saving and doing research, better speakers will stand to you in the long term. If you aim too low for the wrong reasons you may not achieve the quality of sound you would enjoy most.

~M~

LOL! You stated that so much more succinctly than I managed @Meridialien and I couldn't agree with you more.

It is interesting and instructive to read the Dolby patents for Atmos. It is clear they did themselves, and drew on much by others, research on how the ear and brain interpret sound to deduce height. A particularly interesting point is that the intricate mouldings of people's ears are apparently vital to the perception of elevation and not all ears have the same shapes but, a little bit like our brains accounting for the inverted image of the world on our retinas, the brain I assume must learn how to decode the particular ears it is lumbered with.
Fascinatingly, it seems you can fool people into deducing height by manipulating frequency response. With Atmos speakers at normal speaker height (I don't know what happens for ceiling speakers) +5dB and -7dB adjustments from a flat response are used around the 5 kHz area to help create the height illusion. Given the resonances in loudspeakers (even the best) I am amazed that the concept works at all.

Despite what Dolby may say about the need to match one's speakers, since they are not too bothered about frequencies below about 100Hz for Atmos I take this with a pinch of salt. After all, they don't want to undermine the sound industry which is so important to their business. I must emphasise, though, that I regard the perception of sound as so subjective that I would never try to persuade someone that their choice of equipment is somehow wrong. All I want to do is share views from which I and others may learn. My experience is that, within a reasonable range of quality, side, rear and height loudspeakers can vary a great deal (and not be of outstanding sound quality) and not make much difference to my listening pleasure and perception of films and TV in my cinema and, indeed, public cinemas. For me, the same is absolutely not true for the fronts (L, C and R) with cinema and very, very untrue for music listening. For me, though, the intended recreation of reality is helped enormously by the distraction provided by the visual inputs to the brain.

As an aside I might add that although I greatly enjoy much opera and am an enthusiastic patron there is only a restricted range of opera that I will just listen to. I need the action, the drama and all the visual cues to make it truly enjoyable, preferably live. I expect I would notice all sorts of shortcomings with Atmos if my mind weren't on other things.

Not sure if you were aware that Rhonda Wilson, formerly Meridian, took her DSP talents to Dolby. Not sure what involvement she has in Atmos, but even if she didn't, she runs a number of R&D teams at Dolby who might have.

Plus, she also was involved in the development of the forerunner to both Dolby True and Atmos, Meridian's own MLP.
Very clever lady.

~M~

Indeed, but, she did miss that Trifield width was broken so nobody's perfect

What goes around, becomes surround. Keep listening over your shoulder!

Hector

Nick ,
Admit it , you just weren't listening right ! ( And neither was everyone else in Meridian !

~M~