Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems GLAD about my SE speaker repair; but SAD about...

Without trying to sound too negative, is two channel their focus, or have they just got left less far behind in that area? They did create a new analogue processor, but haven’t (yet) brought the improvements to the 818.

Just to throw another p.o.v.

I had a very nice DSP 7.0 setup.

I look back and absolutely recognise/confess/admit the crazy path of must-have-itis since mid 90's and DVD's went mainstream; then plasma and then HDMI etc etc. Throw in the 96/24 upgrades, the G series and MRC.

I wonder how many people are actually walking through dealer doors wanting the full-monty surround? It was absolutely a must-have from the latter half of the 90's. Cutting holes in your ceiling now to get atmos ? Really ? is it that much of a wow/must-have/impress-the-neighbours thing ?

I just don't know if it has the same pull that it did. We can't really take the population in this parish as representative.

I think the ship has sailed and I think Meridian agree (from a business/commercial p.o.v.)….maybe.

I ultimately went back to 2ch.

Completely agree. I feel a lot of peoples viewing behaviour has changed (towards Netflix etc) as well as potentially listening to a lot more variety of music as streaming has become mainstream and so I can understand a focus going back towards 2 channel that can be adapted to more if needed. Personally I've gone back from a 7.1 system to 2 channel and actually enjoy it a lot more day to day.

That said I do think its hard to get a read from Meridian on where things are with them because they say so little... are the speakers so good they don't need further tweaking (I think so)? is their business model now entirely focused elsewhere (custom installations, cars etc)? Where are they trying to go with the brand, new products etc?

What does appear clear is that they have kind of stopped with innovation around the surround processor stuff which is a shame because it would be nice if all the units had upgrades around HDMI, MQA etc. Its funny I see job adverts for the Meridian marketing department and yet beyond a few videos almost no communication comes from then on anything... I think it's a bit of a shame.

Reading through the thread, my thought is that many/most of the comments about Meridian 'falling behind' are based on a perceived tick-list on spec sheets and not about how the gear actually sounds, nor it's original intended purpose.

861 was never just about movies. It was just as much (if not more, at one point) about multichannel audiophile music, with DVD-A and Trifield being notably Meridian-centric technologies. Well, we all know what happened with DVD-A, no matter how good it was technically or how good it sounded. Trifield on the other hand still sounds gob-smackingly awesome when set up right and MRC is still the only RC I've experienced which tames as much as it can without mucking up everything above the bass region and without a loss of transparency or tone, etc. For film soundtracks, no, a Meridian processor won't decode 7.1 formats, it was never designed to, deliberately - all Blu-Ray players by design have the ability to decode and output PCM streams and Meridian see this decoding in the source and using HD621 as a bridge to keep noise out of the 861 as beneficial to sound quality. If you don't agree with that, you look elsewhere, but it's not falling behind it's a choice designed for maximum audio quality.

If you want Atmos, etc, then that's different and there's an argument there - although I still think 861 and 7.1 good DSPs would give Atmos on lesser processors and speakers a very good run for their money. If, however, cost is no object, you can integrate Trinnov with DSPs with the solution Meridian provides, so there's no sense of DSP owners being left behind by Meridian's decision not to go down the Atmos route. I believe this is more than most manufacturers would care about their customers when deciding not to pursue a particular technology.

Things appear to have moved back towards 2-channel for audiophile music and perhaps largely even movies and I can see why Meridian chose to focus on SE development and MQA, etc. Having listened to a lot of other (2-channel) gear which the hifi press and others rave about just to see what the fuss is, let's just say I'm personally very, very glad I discovered Meridian DSPs. To my ears, you would still have to spend a great deal more to get such a natural, dynamic, tonally balanced and sheer kick-ass all round performance with conventional gear. Also, after living with such inherently low-distortion gear for a while, it's quite difficult to listen to other systems which usually betray a surprising amount of inaccuracy which might be mistaken for euphony of some kind, but nevertheless isn't true to the recording. It's no wonder to me now that Meridian went down the active, then DSP route a long time ago and never looked back. I think there would be room for 2-channel MRC and possibly finer subwoofer control for 2-channel listening, though, if 861 isn't to be upgraded and 2-channel is the future, in, say the 818v4.

Going by comments on here, what could be improved is the support for Meridian products in certain parts of the world. We are lucky to have Rick over our side of the pond, and some other dealers are great I'm sure, and it seems people are very happy with Bruce in the US - but it's a big country for him to cover! Didn't Marc Koval take over repair-type support in the States?

Luckily, for those who need help with DIY setup, there is this excellent forum as well as friendly dealers! I'd really like it if we could focus on that on the forum rather than the negatives - creating more of a positive vibe on here, where the brand should be perceived most highly, surely would be good for Meridian's future, isn't that what we all want (and if not, what are we still doing here)?

I went back to 2ch too.. well, 2.1. My room is a bit small for a full 5.1 system but I do use it to watch films and I find the lack of LFE channel in standard down mixing a bit disappointing. I wonder if I'd like to run a 2.1 system from a surround sound decoder just for the better handling of bass.

Are they doing any innovation anywhere at the moment? genuine question.

I don't think anyone doubts that M gear sounds good. that's why it's disappointing, if it sounded rubbish we wouldn't care. I still think that of the various systems I've owned, the Meridian system I had with a G68, HD621 and 3 DSP33 speakers (plus analogue surrounds and sub) was the best sounding system I have owned. I'm a digital fan and have no analogue sources (apart from the echo input I have which is the cheapest Spotify connect endpoint you can buy. why they don't have an optical out I'll never understand!). but just sounding good wasn't enough. the system was flakey, prone to failure and I needed to connect a laptop via a USB to rs232 adaptor to make any config changes. It turned out that the comms boards in my DSP33's were on the way out and I think the G68 might have been struggling a bit but at the time, I could only really afford to paddle in the shallow end of the M pool and it had to go.

I think that if I had a G65 and a pair of DSP3200's or 3300's (I'd love 5200's but I've not really got the room) I might do a lot better, and TBH I'm fine with a really good DD or DTS signal coming in via optical from my TV. it'll still sound great. but even though I know it would be a good system, and would suit my immediate need very well, would I spend brand new money on it? well, a few years ago I spent a similar amount of money on a brand new lyngdorf amp instead.

The problem is that I feel Meridian has stagnated. the surround sound amps have barely moved. isn't the G65 still using the same processing chips as the G68 which came out in 2005? I get the "if it ain't broke" philosophy but this is digital electronics. could they really not have found extra use for some more modern processing power? I know they've recently brought out a new subwoofer (is it any different from the old one?) but before that when was their last new speaker? the .2's came out in 2015 didn't they?

This is a factor that puts me off buying new M gear. does it have a future? will it be supported? do I have an upgrade path? am I getting value for money? will I be able to sell this stuff if I decide to go elsewhere? This last one is especially important as if I have M speakers, then I kinda need an M controller.

If I was to buy an M system today, I'd be looking at a minimum of a G65 and a pair of DSP3200's. That's over £6500.. that buys a lot and it probably has significantly more functionality..

do we know that or do we think it? I'll be honest, I'm not overly convinced. I think they've just not put any significant research money into surround sound in a decade or more. I can potentially understand the argument of putting the HDMI outside (though every other top tier manufacturer somehow manages it) but the fact that they don't decode anything else either is disappointing.

so I do still own some legacy M stuff, and I do keep an eye on their current offerings. I like the idea of having a full M main system again as I like the all digital concept and active DSP speakers and room correction. I even like the G series styling. but I also think I have every right to be disappointed that Meridian don't really appear to be doing anything innovative at the moment. that it's gone from being the market leader to what appears to the untrained eye as sitting on it's laurels and not really investing in new products. As and when I have the kind of money if takes to get into M again I will look and listen but I'd have to convince myself that the speakers are worth the loss in functionality, and I'll be looking and listening to other systems too...

That's unlucky, generally Meridian gear has a very good reputation for reliability. Don't talk to me about more 'popular' brands I've owned in the past and their failure rate (yes, I'm talking about you, NAD, Marantz...). Iirc, the switch-mode PSUs in the earlier G-series were problematic in terms of longevity, hence the switch back to LPSU and the kits to change them over. When you say they were on their way out, did you buy new or used?

Yes, if it ain't broke don't fix it is right - where do you go from fundamentally accurate sound? The SE were a major upgrade 5 years ago and have had firmware updates periodically to add various functionality, etc., just as preceding DSP speakers did before them. This is not outside the normal development pace at Meridian, is it? It was 10 years between DSP6000 and DSP8000 replacing it. Similar periods between the other major model changes. In the 15 or so years of DSP development before .2, Meridian used the same tweeter for example. SE was a huge change because of the findings relating to MQA necessitating higher bandwidth electronics and lower ringing time/faster transient response resulting in the beryllium tweeter. My point is, it isn't a new thing to see Meridian using long-standing product design and not fixing something if it ain't broke, while introducing new FW to enhance usability, etc.

DSW.2 is significantly different, yes, it has a newly designed, longer throw driver.

The last new speaker(s) before the DSW.2 were a few months ago with major revisions to the in-wall speakers and, in November last year, an all-new install DSP750, which is a very major upgrade with some innovations not seen before on Meridian gear and/or their custom install range (see here)

Out of interest, what gives you the impression it doesn't have a future? Until you have 7x DSP8000SE, 861v8, 818v3 and 2x DSW.2, yes, you'd have an upgrade path! I've noticed a rise in second-hand prices recently, so yes, you'll probably sell at less of a loss (if you want to, that is).


Meridian's stance on this is they didn't believe in injecting a lot of HDMI 'noise' into an endpoint, so the HD621 was designed.

Get one, you'll love it! In terms of innovation, the rest of the audio world are only just beginning to catch up with DSP active speakers, etc., and treating them like they're shiny and new. None of us know what innovations Meridian are or aren't working on and that's the same with a great deal of manufacturers of all kinds.

At the end of the day, it's audio - you either love the 'house sound' or you don't - if you do, Meridian still have a fabulous sounding, world-class product lineup, if you don't, that's a different matter, but that was always the case.

Sad about? I really wish Meridian would send KR of Stereophile a pair of 5200SEs or 7200SEs to complete his reviews of current active DSP speakers. How M can dismiss the value of free advertising baffles me, but reviewers will take the time to properly set up then describe the exact placement, their trials and final results along with useful measurements that end users like us can use to get the best out of our own systems.

When I hide out at the local hifi shop on a Saturday afternoon and customers eventually ask me what I have at home when I tell them the usual reply is "Wasn't Meridian a pretty big deal back in the 90's?".
The only local dealer near me is selling off their demo gear on AG so on one hand I'm grateful for what I have, but I guess a little bummed nobody else has a clue.

I think their sales mechanisms could do with a rethink. I first came across Meridian in a local branch of Sevenoaks and then proceeded to sit around listening to them over the course of many weeks.

Nowadays I haven't seen them at all in most retail outlets.

I think it's not just the state of the sales operation that concerns people, but that Bob Stuart, the driving force behind everything that made Meridian the company I love has, by all accounts, left the mothership.

I also happen to have an outstanding speaker issue that dates back 12 months, but no-one seems interested in fixing a speaker under warranty that buzzes, which raises questions as to whether there is anyone still working there at all!

Don’t misunderstand - I still love Meridian and every moment of joy their equipment brings into my life, but I am concerned that they have decided the traditional audiophile market isn’t their future and the bespoke system market is. That would make me sad for purely selfish reasons.

Let me guess, its 'within spec'. I have similar on Prime PSU - its even been compared next to another Prime PSU that was totally silent - just as I expect them to be. The bit that annoys me, is that on two occasions, either Meridian or one of their reps have said that it was normal (clearly not having compared side by side) and I bet on neither of those occasions was the unit opened up to check inside if anything obvious was making the noise or a simple adjustment could not fix.

I did however get a longer power lead off of them to separate the units to allow the PSU to be moved further away from the listening position! Unfortunately, they swapped it (in the old days I would have got to keep the original) for my original short lead which in its current position I would find rather more useful.

So unfortunately, buzzing kit seems to be 'within tolerance' these days.

Alas, this experience has made me question if I would ever buy Meridian again.

FWIW, when I bought my (used) 7200s, I noticed on demo that one of them had a very slight buzz. From experience I guessed it was probably transformer buzz and asked if this could be sorted as a condition of sale. Rick kindly looked at it and all that was required was a slight adjustment of the bolt holding the transformer. The speaker has been completely silent ever since, so sometimes not even a new part is required.

Maybe worth asking a good PP/dealer if they can have a look and sort these buzzes?

Perhaps I was unlucky, but it did make things awkward and very frustrating and it's the only hifi I think I've ever bought which has suffered issues like that. Maybe I've been lucky with other brands but everything else I've owned has been broadly fine. yes the stuff I bought was second-hand at the time. as I said, I could barely afford to paddle in the M pool at the time.

More accurate sound? Although M stuff is good, I'm not sure we can claim that they perfectly reproduce all audio can we?
Regarding speakers, I bow to your superior knowledge...

Well yes, there's an upgrade path in terms of speakers, though I don't really have the room for floorstanders in my current lounge which limits things severely. but in terms of upgrade path, yes the 861v8 is an upgrade to the g65 in sheer sound quality, but not really in terms of featureset, improvements to MRC, UI, codec's, connectivity etc. and I think there's a reasonable concern that they'll continue to make Meridian surround processors. I know about the 271 and that's both a good and bad thing, it's good that it allows the use of DSP speakers with other processors, but it's bad in that it gives M an option to just give up on processing completely..

That answers the question of why the HDMI box is on the outside, but not why it doesn't decode more advanced audio codecs, or any of the other things.

10 years ago I certainly liked the house sound and I've not given up yet.

This is also true. I live in the northwest of England and I think my nearest dealer is Sheffield...