Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Streaming Hardware with Roon Application Roon Server not seeing 861v8 ID41

I posted this on Roon's support forum - thought I would place it here too. Any assistance would be gratefully received. I have read other posts but the issues appeared by an unmanaged switch (at least for one of them).

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Roon is on a QNAP RAID Model: TSA-670 Pro.

Roon Server
Status : Running
Version : 1.7 (build 505) stable
QPKG-Version : 2019-06-09
Process ID : 14615

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

Broadband via Virgin Media fibre service --> Draytek Vigor2862AC which has 4 LAN ports connected to:

1. & 2. QNAP Drive which has the Roon service on an SSD drive and the database on a separate RAID drive (this volume has about 4TB of space available).

3. Meridian MC600 (Sooloos Core and Drive turn off). 4 of the 6 zones are active (ceiling speakers in various rooms. Each zone analogue converted to IP and sent via ethernet across home LAN).

4. Unmanaged Switch - the switch then allows the connection to various ports on an ethernet panel switchboard to provide ethernet connections to various rooms in a 3 storey house. Sadly none are near my Meridian 861v8 with ID41 card.

The Vigor2862ac (running firmware 3.8.8.2_BT) is also connected wirelessly to an Draytek AP903 (running firmware 1.3.4.1) in Range Extender mode. The AP903 connects via ethernet to the ID41 card. The ID41 card is allocated a DHCP IP address (192.168.0.41) and it is possible to view the ID41 settings page. The ID41 does not appear as a zone on Roon / is for some reason not visible. The Meridian MC600 is also allocated a IP address and can be viewed using the Sooloos Configuration Program (via Parallels) - all zones are visible to Roon and can play music.

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

The audio devices are:

Meridian 861v8 ID41 card - connected as described above
Meridian MC600 with 4 of 6 zones active - connected as decribed above
Various iPhones, iPads and a Mac Book Pro - wirelessly or over ethernet

Description Of Issue

My Roon installation has been work for about 5 years without any issues. In the last 6 months, the Roon Server can not find the ID41 card although it has an IP address (as indicated by ARP and DHCP Tables). I can also access the ID41’s settings web page via a browser. As part of my diagnostic tests, I used a long ethernet cable and connected the ID41 directly to a Draytek Vigor 2862 LAN port and it performs flawlessly. The Roon Server can see all of the MC600 zones and play music through each and all of them.

Previously and for about 5 years, I was using a Devolo Powerline network which worked fine. For some reason, and without a change to the rest of the environment (other than various firmware updates to various devices) ID41 card started to drop off from Roon but still had an IP address. It would come back after leaving it alone. Then it would not come back on at all. I replaced the Devolo Powerline system with their newest model thinking the other unit had partially failed. Same problem repeated itself. I then moved to my current set-up with the AP903 - ID41 gets an IP address but Roon does not see it. I am reasonably certain that both the ID41 card and the MC600 have the latest firmware releases available. If I plug my MacBook Pro into the AP903, it gets an IP address and I can run Roon and use it as an endpoint. If I connect my iPhone wirelessly to the AP903 - the Roon app works, I can stream to my phone and control the other zones via my phone.

I am at a loss as to what is the issue? Any thoughts?

Do you beg/borrow a replacement ID41 card to eliminate my card as the problem? Could it be a problem with the primary ethernet card in the QNAP? Try running Roon off another server - could set-up an old Mac Mini or my current MacBookPro?

I used to really like Roon

I would be tempted to run a test with the 861, core and remote all being connected to the router (turn off all other network devices and restart the router).
The outcome should help to close down the problem. Here is a link to a long Cat 5 cable.

Cheers
Tom

I appreciate this isn't massively helpful - but it's maybe worth restating that Meridian have always been clear that their Sooloos devices should be networked only via ethernet. They don't recommend and have never supported networking via wifi or powerline adapters. I used to have repeated random and extremely frustrating issues with MS200s, MC200s and an ID41 card when I tried to avoid having to ethernet cable the house. I ultimately gave in and wired those rooms I wanted Meridian endpoints in. I've had no issues since then.

I greatly doubt this is a Roon problem. It's another example of the instability of Meridian MDMS/Sooloos devices over wifi/powerline adapters. I hope you manage to find a solution but it's likely, even if you do, that the issue will recur from time to time.

Roon is running a lot of Meridian gear. It works. It almost always boils down to

1) a network router issue
2) an IP address conflict
3) Sooloos core not turned off
4) a firewall blocking one of the roon .exe files.

ID cards can fail but it is quite rare. Check 1-4 and then get a direct cable feed to the ID card.

Reboot everything including powerline plugs, routers, 8xx unit etc

On the Roon forum I recall a few ranters swearing blind that NOTHING has ever changed in their system and YOUR software is broken. Then after a week of back and forth, they say "oh yeah, I did get a new broadband router from my satellite provider....I didn't think that was important"....BINGO.

Not suggesting that is the case here but worth really being sure. New routers, A/V software updates etc

Sorry to say it but the answer is right here. For the best, most reliable performance, a wired connection to a Meridian device is the way to do it. Powerline, wireless bridging, etc. in a residential setting using consumer grade widgets may work for a while but by and large most eventually fail or have connectivity problems later on.

Unless you are willing to spend big money on a commercial Cisco router with a wireless LAN controller and two wireless access points in bridge mode. By big money I am talking well over ten grand by the time all the licenses, service agreements, and professional configuration is added in. In the commercial side of things I did a project for some hospitals so that they could have wireless video diagnostic carts using Polycom video conference systems mounted on a mobile cart. It was very time consuming to get it to work as specified but once done it has been working without any hiccups for nearly ten years.

In the end, you have to ask yourself "what is my time worth?". When you figure in all the time and frustration you will expend fiddling with the widgets trying to get them to work, getting a ethernet connection to that room becomes more possible and a lot cheaper than you ever imagined.

Many thanks for the range of responses. Life has interrupted further diagnostics. Another HH has kindly reached out via PM to assist me with the network diagnostics. I feel it is worthwhile trying to make it work without having to lift carpets, floor boards and chase cables through walls and then have them repaired and redecorated. That for me work be a costly last resort. I not blaming OEM at this point and I am just objectively trying to solve the issue/change in settings/change in hardware or state of operation in hardware along the way.

I believe Roon uses mDNS to find its end points and it seems not all network devices play nicely.

I would start by checking the Draytek AP and router both support this protocol in range extender mode and both units have this switched on. The fact everything works when you bypass the wireless link suggest this would be a good starting point.

Despite the warnings about the desirability of wired ethernet connections, last year when we were living in rented accommodation while our home was being refurbished I established a fully wireless Sooloos system. It worked flawlessly (don't know if the same would be true of Roon). The key to getting it working properly was to have the Sooloos system more or less isolated from the main router by using a very simple unmanaged switch into which the main Sooloos bits plugged in and only one connection to the router (the uplink of the switch). Actually, the only things plugged into the switch (apart from the single link to the router) was the anchor disc of a 5 disc BT Wholehome mesh wireless system and the Sooloos core (a QNAP NAS). The other Sooloos bits (3 C10s, a 218 and two MS200s) were all wirelessly connected using some quite elderly Belkin ethernet bridges. I tried all sorts of layouts previously but only when I decided to put a cheap 5 port switch I had lying around into the configuration did it work. I can't explain why - it just did.

In contrast, I now have a largely wired system (back in our home). It uses a Netgear 24 port switch (and they are not that simple). It didn't work properly with Sooloos or Roon initially. Only when the settings on the switch were changed from the defaults (principally affecting multicast), guided as I was by a magnificent Hiker who is a network expert, did the wired system work properly!

Yes, if multicast is turned off mDNS cannot function. Some broadband provided routers do not implement this functionality at all...

Multicast was not turned off and IGMP snooping was disabled.

Same here - this is getting to the point where actually considering removing Roon/ Tidal and possibly looking at alternatives...

861v8 / ID41
MS200

Any Meridian end point with QNAP and M - directly wired or otherwise - cannot hold onto the endpoint.

Dropping of connectivity for both content on the NAS as well as Internet streaming.

Re-boot NAS (painful) and holds on for a little while then goes back to random drops.

Sick to death of it to be honest.

I only have Roon on my NAS - nothing else at all - and it can't operate...

Chris

Have you tried moving your Roon core to your Mac or PC, as a test just turn off the NAS setup a new core on the PC/Mac and have a local folder with 5 or 10 albums, point the new core to that folder in the storage settings and see if you still have the disconnects.

Russ