Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems My journey with Meridian (and Shunyata, AQVOX etc)

I should have been clearer that this only an assumption based on a conversation I had with a neighbour about how they could extend their Wifi, but I didn't go back and ask whether they had decided on this approach as it might look like I was complaining when I'm not.

That said, whatever is causing this is recent (but pre-Christmas lighting), is likely to be pretty close by and on the same phase. I haven't come across anything (even heavy duty three-phase water pumps) creating this kind of issue, so a PowerLine adaptor is my best guess. It's also the easiest solution for most people who need to extend their network through walls that reflect all wifi signals.

In our case, the Sky box couldn't see the Wifi extender six meters away (but the other side of the wall), so we ended up wiring pretty much every room in the house with ethernet sockets to get around this.

This really doesn't sound right to me. Many people run electrical items that create noise such as Powerline adaptors and switched PSU's, but do not suffer/report a sound stage completely collapsing, let alone when some (more devoted listeners around us) run kit to clean up power such as the Shunyata kit that you mention.

A signal from a neighbouring powerline adaptor, certainly in a typical UK street, would likely have travelled 100 yards or more, past several other houses on a different phase, through several meters other devices all screwing with the signal and thats even before taking into account time of day differences such as voltage, frequency, environmental issues, health and just plain old psychoacoustics.

Personally, I would say that the root cause is closer to home, and possibly worth getting the Shunyta guys in with their meter to check your Shunyta kit is working properly and maybe even home in on the source of the problem. Need to follow the evidence.

Well, an oscilloscope in FFT mode and judicious use of the isolators in the fuse box should indicate whether it is internal or external. I can also compare the signal before and after the Shunyata equipment.

Please try and track this source of noise. We're intrigued.

I've dabbled with the iFi AC purifier which seems pretty good at limiting certain trouble frequencies. With outlet placement detailed in their guide you can isolate the troublemaker. Not sure if those interfere with any powerline network extenders though. It's all very interesting this..

Edit: Saw now that you have the Triton v3 as I do. The backplane of the triton is if I'm not mistaken split between the top 4 outlets and the bottom 4 outlets on EU schuko models atleast.
You can therefore isolate pretty good between those. Try isolating your 818/861 to be alone on the top or bottom 4 outlets. If this doesn't isolate well enough put an iFi AC purifier next to the 818/861 to push the noise down again with upto -40dB for certain frequencies.

You can use the split backplane of the triton v3 to put all SMPS equipment (UHD722/ATV4K/etc) on the bottom 4 outlets and LPS (818/861/DSP Speakers) equipment on the top 4 outlets for example.

If you find the real trouble maker (powerline network extender?) I would surround it with two iFi AC purifiers on a regular powerstrip as they send out an inverted cancellation signal to block that noise but now it can be contained on that single powerstrip before hitting any house wiring circuit.

PS. After you've found the offender please go ahead and upgrade to the Typhon QR which have gotten rave reviews apparently. DS.

Good Luck!

I’m going to try and find time this week to look at this - I’ll let you know how I get on :-)

Yes, I had a play with these - and heard improvements until this additional noise started

My Triton appears to be split into four groups of two sockets each (two groups on the top and two on the bottom). I currently have the music player plugged into the top and the speakers plugged into different groups on the bottom row, so I think our configuration is similar. That said, my 818 is currently plugged into the mains filter I mentioned previously to make the system bearable! I did try the iFi in the socket next to the 818 (when it was plugged into the Triton) and I felt it sucked some of the life out of the performance, so took it out again...

If it turns out to be an internal issue, I will definitely try this. Before this issue, I had two iFi's, one either side of the Triton's wall socket.

I still suspect a PowerLine, though. I have read that the PowerLines push noise beyond 430MHz on to earth/live & neutral. If one considers the drop in signal at 1MHz (at least for ADSL lines) is only around 0.6dB per 30 metres of cable, there would seem a good opportunity for this signal to propagate from a neighbour.

I also read the following quote on The Register's forum recently: 'I was advised by an electrician when asking the same sort of questions, that the [PowerLine] signal will not be stopped at the Fuse Box/Trip Panel. So in addition to appearing on all of your internal rings, it will also be fed into the building supply if you are in apartment block say. I think the signal gets out on to the local supply connection, where it is attenuated by distance'

There is also the wildcard of Sky Q boxes containing PowerLine hardware (but, nowadays, Sky have disabled it because it caused too many complaints). There is always the possibility that one of our Sky Q boxes is playing up and causing this problem.

I'm hoping to get it shipped back for the upgrade in March :-)

A quick update (for those that are waiting on me) to say that the new year has been busy enough to prevent me finding time to wander around the house with an oscilloscope to figure out what is going on (it's not something you want to rush either, with mains voltages involved).

My plan, though, is to put either a PS Audio P5 or P12 on the Meridian processor, which comes with a kind of dumbed-down oscilloscope (it won't tell me the frequency bands the noise is in, but it will give me the sine wave and the THD figure), which might give a reasonable idea of where the noise is coming from.

The question now is whether to get a P12, which is meant to be miles better, or a P5, which is miles cheaper (and leaves more budget to change to a DPC-6, if an audition shows that works as well).


Edit: I discovered that having any of the bathroom extractor fans on will also completely destroy the sound stage, despite being on different circuits. In this case, nothing I currently have in place will fix this, but it indicates that it doesn't need to be a PowerLine adaptor to screw things up. Fortunately, we don't have a huge need to run these fans.

Hi Jeremy,

I have been following this thread of your trailblazing into cleaning up mains signal in your house/within your system, with great interest.

I was intrigued by your rating of the Shunyata Triton being so high up on the list of gains made.

After seeing videos of the Triton reducing mains noise from 100 to 0.1 on a noise analyser and another showing that the Venom uk6 taking it down to 0.2, I thought I'd dip my toe into the water and purchase a UK6 power distributer (bought 2nd hand off eBay).

WELL, I received the UK6 last night and with great haste went into my music room.

Firstly I got re-acquainted with a few track and then replaced power leads of 818 + 8000's from my current fairly high-end power distributor, into the UK6.

1 minute in....not that impressed. As a 2nd hand unit I imagine it should have already been 'burnt-in'

Then a few minutes later.......WOW.

Sitting in the dark, my speakers just seemed to disappear. I now have a soundstage like I have never heard before. Pinpoint accuracy of each note with amazing clarity, precise location of vocals with not only better width separation (now past the walls of the room) but also more front to back depth(The guitar played to the left rear on Dire Straits 'Your Latest Trick' just got about 5metres further back). Decays that end with more realism.

The noise floor has also dropped like nothing I have heard before. I think the 8k's are now showing what they are really capable of....this seems to allow more space around singers/instruments, helping create an added sense of what the actual space was like when recorded (or how the producer wanted it to sound).

To my ears, this £750 purchase by far outweighs the gains I think my system made going from 818v2/8000 to 818v3/8000SE....its that big a change.

When listening to tracks from artists such as Norah Jones, where the setting should be more intimate, I have heard hi-end revealing systems that make it sound more like she is playing at Wembley. With the UK6, it kept the intimacy but just made it several levels more realistic. Amazing.

Thank you very much for your reviews and more specific, the break down of order of best gains made.

This is what pointed me in this direction.

I had already planned to listen to some high-end Nordost mains cables this Friday, I'm now thinking I have to try to get a demo of some Shunyata cables.

I can't really see how its going to get that much better from what I have now......but then again I wasn't expecting such a massive level of change with the power distributor.

I'm hoping that the level of change is not great enough to warrant the outlay......lets see.

Thanks Again and please keep us updated with your findings.

I'm also intrigued by the cleaning of the Network side to things you have undertaken but need to read a little more on this to better understand what I may need for my system(still using Sooloos from MC200)

Thanks Again

Darren

Hi Darren

I'm glad you're enjoying your system

Shunyata should be able to arrange some cables for you to demo via one of their dealers (I bought mine from KJ West One). They get audibly better the higher up you go, but the Sigma cables are seriously expensive (try them at your peril!).

I'm inclined to agree that ethernet is something worth doing once you have the mains sorted to your satisfaction - and I wouldn't rule out changing the SpeakerLink cables either.

Let us know how you get on... the Meridian's are seemingly capable of so much more than they deliver out of the box.

Jeremy

Congratulations Jeremy and Darren in pushing ever onwards with improving your infrastructure and hence your sound quality.

My starting point had been a disappointment with the imaging abilities of the 8kSEs and also with a lack of presence. The steps I have taken which I outlined above have addressed that issue but I have discovered that there was further to go.

Out of idle curiosity, but with no sense of expectation, I decided to try a tweak which I had read about long ago, so long ago that I do not remember where the idea originated. I bought some foam water-pipe lagging (insulation) of generous diameter and cut it into short lengths. These I wrapped around my SL cables and power cords at regular intervals so that each cable no longer touched the ground, the equipment or other cables. The improvement in sound quality that resulted was significant, most notably an increase in clarity and presence. If I was starting again I think I would try this first before making any expensive investments in infrastructure. The whole exercise only cost a few pounds, dramatically less than exotic cable risers.

I realise that this description makes me sound as though I am suffering from an acute case of audiophilia nervosa!

Interesting thought, if Shunyata sell floor-lifters, there is probably a reason. This could be an inexpensive way to try this out.

These will do the same job, look nice and won’t break the bank.

Isn't the idea of the supports to absorb vibration? Would a wooden support make a huge difference?

I must admit, I'm still wondering how much micro-vibrations matter, although I completely accept that all sorts of things can make a difference. Even things that, at first glance, shouldn't!