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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 274 Likes: 1
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 274 Likes: 1 |
Whilst discussing some B&W speakers up for sale new from a shop I mentioned how good DSP speakers (all digital signal path until near the output to power amps) are, and especially how much of a bargain the DSP6000's in particular are. Can anyone tell me what to make of the chaps response. I'm not really techy but I do think that the chap doesn't quite know what he's on about. Are there any things I can point out to him, or is there actually merit to what hes saying? Thoughts? Actually, DSP is problematic. It introduces additional and unnecessary digital/analogue conversion stages, and often at a poorer standard than proprietary discrete (line level, full frequency) DACs. In addition, class D amplification is often good on the quantity (and energy efficiency) but low on quality. Subjectively, a discrete, high quality analogue Class A/B amplifier is almost always preferred, and often commands a higher price and indeed a higher place within a manufacturer's range.
As with anything, it's not just about the approach; The key is the execution. But unless I had serious speaker/room issues, I'd always take a top shelf (single stage) proprietary DAC (Chord, MSB, DCS, Weiss), and a high quality, fully discrete and fully analogue set of active speakers (ATC, PMC, Event, Focal). You can trust that configuration. I've owned and experienced a very wide range of studio and hifi equipment, from a few hundred pounds to a few hundred thousand pounds. For a VFM 'state of the art' system, I don't think you can do better than a Chord Hugo and a pair of ATC active speakers. Simple and (more or less) as good as it gets.
None of that has any relevance to this deal. But I've also owned many B&W speakers, and passive still has a place. This is a bargain.
DSP6000
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,492
Senior Shouting Officer
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Senior Shouting Officer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,492 |
Actually, DSP is problematic. It introduces additional and unnecessary digital/analogue conversion stages, and often at a poorer standard than proprietary discrete (line level, full frequency) DACs. Only if you have an analogue source such as vinyl. The rest of what he said about DACs is BS IMHO In addition, class D amplification is often good on the quantity (and energy efficiency) but low on quality. Subjectively, a discrete, high quality analogue Class A/B amplifier is almost always preferred, and often commands a higher price and indeed a higher place within a manufacturer's range. Complete BS, he's obviously never heard a Hypex nCore Class D amp.
Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 274 Likes: 1
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 274 Likes: 1 |
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. He really has no idea. As he mentioned ie a/b amplifier I wasn't to knowledgeable of such and didn't want to speak without the correct understanding.
DSP6000
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001 Likes: 10
Knows where his towel is
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Knows where his towel is
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001 Likes: 10 |
Some of what he says has merit.
As above though, once anything in the chain, including recording/mastering, is digital then all that goes out of the window.
Personally I don't like the ATC actives, so his "Hugo and ATC actives is as good as it gets' comment just makes him sound a bit silly as far as I am concerned.
Having said that, there are also some speakers that I 'prefer' over Meridian’s in 'many' areas, the thing Meridian DSPs do well is they always sound 'nice'.
There are speakers that sound better with vocals and certain instruments like guitars, thinking Harbeth, and some that sound more exciting or more laid back.
But overall, the Meridian’s just always sound 'nice'.
But with most material being digitized now, I don't think the reason some speaker amp combos sound... shall we say, more realistic?? than Meridian DSPs is the reason they are better, I would argue that is cabinet and driver design rather than the fact they are DSPs.
I reckon if Meridian took say a Harbeth 30.1 or 40.1 and put their DSP boards inside them we would get something truly sensational, and at that point no one would say 'DSPs cause issues".
No Darling, I've had it months!
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1 member likes this:
3dit0r |
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 126
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 126 |
take flagship B&W speakers and any amps at any price, throw in gazillion dollar wires and cables (for your voodoo bias) and A/B them over time w/ DSP8k's. it won't even be close, if you want the most accurate neutral sound.
if you want tiring and bright overdone sound, then yeah, sure, the b&w's will be preferable and you can make erroneous more at ignorant claims about DSP tech while you're at it.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,569 Likes: 13
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,569 Likes: 13 |
If I remember correctly one of the design briefs was for the DSP speakers to sound good with all musical styles at all volumes.
The Hot Rod designs may very well excell in one area or another but that was the problem.
No 18 in the Hall of fame  I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall. QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into DSP5200SE via 210/ 218 zone... Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2, Mini & Flex. 596v1, 518, Foxsat HD, Sony BDP, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos. MS200 to F80 for a Roon zone
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001 Likes: 10
Knows where his towel is
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Knows where his towel is
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001 Likes: 10 |
take flagship B&W speakers and any amps at any price, throw in gazillion dollar wires and cables (for your voodoo bias) and A/B them over time w/ DSP8k's. it won't even be close, if you want the most accurate neutral sound.
if you want tiring and bright overdone sound, then yeah, sure, the b&w's will be preferable and you can make erroneous more at ignorant claims about dsp tech while you're at it. But take a pair of Harbeth 40.1's and a Meridian DSP8000s and although they sound different, many would argue that as nice, powerful, full, and dynamic the 8K's are, the Harbeths are the ones which sound like the artist is in the room with you.
No Darling, I've had it months!
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 885 Likes: 56
Pan-dimensional being
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Pan-dimensional being
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 885 Likes: 56 |
Referring to your mention of the value on the DSP6000s, I completely agree. Also, I thought DSP6000s used class A amps.
I was recently listening to a pair of $9000 B&W speakers, and came home and remarked to my wife that they didn't come anywhere close to my almost 20 year old DSP6000s.
Theater: 861v4_LPS, 818v3, HD621, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro, DSP8000SE, DSP5500C, SW1600x2, DSP5500, Epson 6040UB, PS4
Living room: 861v4_LPS, HD621, DSP8000SE, DSP5200C, Oppo 203, Lumagen 2143, 818v3, Sooloos/MC600 Bluesound Node
Bedroom: M80
office: G68D, DSP6000
Garage: DSP5000
Storage: M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, M1500, G98DH, SW1600
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001 Likes: 10
Knows where his towel is
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Knows where his towel is
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001 Likes: 10 |
If I remember correctly one of the design briefs was for the DSP speakers to sound good with all musical styles at all volumes.
The Hot Rod designs may very well excell in one area or another but that was the problem. Absolutely spot on. Meridian DSP speakers sound 'nice' with everything. However, listen to some close mic work or acoustic guitar on a Spender Classic or Harbeth and both sound like the artist is in the room in a way a heavily damped speaker cabinet never can.
No Darling, I've had it months!
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001 Likes: 10
Knows where his towel is
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Knows where his towel is
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001 Likes: 10 |
Referring to your mention of the value on the DSP6000s, I completely agree. Also, I thought DSP6000s used class A amps.
I was recently listening to a pair of $9000 B&W speakers, and came home and remarked to my wife that they didn't come anywhere close to my almost 20 year old DSP6000s. But in general B&W speakers are nasty. Listen to some $4k Harbeth speakers to see what the real competition is all about.
No Darling, I've had it months!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,821 Likes: 94
Great Green Arkleseizure
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Great Green Arkleseizure
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,821 Likes: 94 |
If I remember correctly one of the design briefs was for the DSP speakers to sound good with all musical styles at all volumes.
The Hot Rod designs may very well excell in one area or another but that was the problem. My experience is all about my space. Chris please add space to style and volume to approach perfection. DSP5200SE in my space meet, no greatly exceed my expectations. OK, I have experienced Vienna moments, and high end dems that sound wonderful, but unfortunately not in my space. It would take a considerable lottery win to purchase a new space to play. Hector
AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SEUG.
STUDY 504, Roon Nucleus + RevB, 808v6, 5200SE, Mac & PC (Touch Screen), Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys, iPad Mini
A capella to Zydeco
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 126
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 126 |
i've never heard those speakers, and i'm sure they sound excellent, but after listening to too many brands, i'm just going to stick w/ my dsp8k's and not think about amps, wires and other nonsense. 
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