Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems DSP5200 or more B&W?

Bernie

Since that is what was achieveable with the options being compared it was a valid comparison. That the G91 will not upsample CDs with DSP5200s in Type 6 (not sure if it does so in Type 1) is a limitation that has to be evaluated alongside everything else.

And I have no hard evidence that upsampling was the cause of the difference since that controlled test was not done. It could still be the speakers. I do know that B&W does fundamental research on drivers. I have never heard of Meridian pushing that particular envelope, although the engineering in the digital domain is very innovative.

I have no desire to change your or anyone's mind. I am secure in my own evaluation process against the options that make sense to me. Each person's evaluation criteria and situation are somewhat unique. I don't appreciate the "claimed" remark either. The truth is what I heard not what you second guess me on what you think I heard and why it doesn't fit your perception of what I should have heard. I have no desire to be part of or engage in any particular equipment cult, even though I have invested $11k already in Meridian equipment.

When the option was to compare DSP5200 and no G68 ($11k) vs B&W803D + G68AXV ($16k) the 5200 looked potentially attractive. If we now must compare DSP5200 + G68D ($18k) vs B&W 803D + G68AXV ($16k) in order to make it sound acceptable with CDs the equation is different. The simplicity of the digital speaker cabling is worth paying for, but only if the sound is equal or better.

There is enough question over that to make it worth listening to the 803D. Which is what I will now do. Especially given that I could use my existing N804s as rears vs losing half the value of them in selling them.


It would be great to see a combination of Meridian's digital speaker technologies with B&W's cabinet, driver and driver loading innovations. Surely B&W which has become large and successful and has much broader distribution would entertain at least licensing the Meridian digital speaker technologies to bring them to a wider market.

Sanjay




[This message has been edited by Sanjay (edited 05-03-2005).]

I really doubt it was upsampling causing the difference. Half the folks here (that's a guess) don't even feel it upsampling really helps all that much at all.

I can barely hear the difference. And I know I'm not alone.

The DSP 5200 speaker is performing upsampling as well. So sending 44.1KHz would give 88.2 from the speaker.

The speaker firmware is now listed as beta version so I don't know for sure if this functionality is active yet.

But the speaker react differently on sending it 48KHz compared to 96KHz when comparing it with the DSP5000C I had. So that could suggest that it is indeed upsampling as the papers suggest.

I can't hear any difference when upsampling.

So if people can't tell the difference what is the point of haveing the feature of upsampling? seems like a rather pointless feature if it does not improve the quality.

There is a theoretical advantage to doing it. I just can't honestly hear it.

To my ears, it's in the 5% improvement category....hardly earthshaking. It makes the top and mid a bit smoother, but you'll only really be aware of just what it's doing if you leave it on for several weeks, then switch it out. The sound is then slightly coarser by comparison. Weighed against that, you could argue that the sound has more life and presence without it (upsampling does seem to reduce dynamics). I do wonder what the effect will be when the DSPs can do 192kHz; it may be more worthwhile then, but at present it's marginal and programme dependent.

Cheers

George

I agree with you george in the fact that it makes the sound smoother in the top end and i have noticed it with my B&W speakers.

Cheers
John

Upsampling is a widely debated topic.

I believe it imparts a substantial audible difference, but not in every system. As the Passband filters, and amplifier characteristics of Meridian gear are optimised from Speaker to System, the "M" difference is more noticeable, if you have a Meridian System. Upsampling helps in dejittering the internal computations, and producing a more linear phase response. This means the Clock speed is less of an obstacle, further... The Input filter and output filter do not need to be as sharp, and the frequencies all the way to 22K roll off smoothly.


Some wide bandwidth Amplifiers have a hard time with Upsampling, as the signal leaving the Meridian has a seemingly unlimited bandwidth -- you may find some amplifiers to choke on this feed.

This Said... The G products generally compute all processes in Quad speed,
and output Quad 176.4 to the analogue system but due to limitations in the signal path, DSP loudspeakers accept only Dual speed data samples 88.2.

Whether this is audible or not depends in large measure upon the pipeline after exiting the M gear.

In an analogue system the quad speed carries all of the way through to the Speaker crossover. (save what issues your amplifiers may have).
In a Digital System -- PCM carries 88.2 to the speaker.

Whether you hear this upsampling or not; The difference is still up to you.
I'll wager that if you own a G68, and set-up your system to "high-speed" output for the DVD input, and set the CD input to "High-speed" off, alternating these sources: A & B... the Upsampling will make a believer of you. And you will never listen to basic bandwidth again.
Upsampling imparts Higher peaks, grander scale to the audible picture, less capped High frequencies, Broader textures, and an overall wider taller,and deeper sound-stage.

Upsampling is a better mousetrap, as it allows more refined sound shaping with less errors, and a very simple way to remove sampling image and spurs in the audible band.

(Opinion)
However given the inherent flaw in Passive circuits... Playing M gear Quad speed into Passive Loudspeakers is a bit like Recording your CD's to Cassette, to listen to them on your iPod

-Bernie

Your last statement blew the credibility of your post which was doing pretty well and only convinces me all the more that it's more hype than audible differences when folks have to make statements like that to backup their point of view.

Apologies George,The naysayers were beginning to get me down, I decided to quash the entire back-n-forth with a zinger.

If one cannot see the inherent benefits to Upsampling, it's likely they could not see the cynicism in this last sentence, it's perhaps that I have been in the States too long. But Passive B & W's should sound incredible at 176.4.

A fair and Balanced demo with a Pair of Bowers at 176, with DSP's at 44, is as much B.S. as I've heard this month.

-Bernie