Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Ultra DAC > 818v3/808v6

Based on several online blogs / reviews, the general consensus is that the Ultra DAC is a significant improvement on the 818v3.

Currently, I have an 808v5 and have posted previously about upgrading to the 808v6 (to put it on par with the 818v3) when connected to my DSP7200SE speakers.

However, I am feeling pretty short changed when I read that the Ultra DAC with all its new tech cannot be connected to DSP speakers.

And even after upgrading to the 808v6, it seems I will still be missing the newer tech found in the Ultra DAC.

Anyone share my sentiments, or do the DACs found in the DSP SE speakers share the same/similar tech as used in the Ultra DAC?

This is to a large degree the case, according to the data sheets.

The only thing that I suspect we're missing in a 818v3/DSP-SE set-up is the fancy DSD decoding in the Ultra. But that may just be marketing words for what the 818 does anyway... Hard to tell.

That sounds about right with the 818v3 feeding the same high-end analogue system. The new DAC architecture and management in the ultra DAC is yet another step up in AQ.

Sounds like a good plan to get the best out of your SE's and also to be able to decode MQA files as and when they become more available.

It's a DAC, it is not designed to drive DSP's. All the new tech in the DAC control would be bypassed if it were to have digital outputs. You'd be paying a ton of money for all that tech that would not be used with DSP's.

See my previous comment. Is there something specific that you are concerned about?

No I don't share it. The DAC management in the SE DSP's is similar to the Ultra DAC but they also operates quite differently in that ... in the DSP's they are optimised to drive the frequency band required for the amp / drivers they are feeding (High Frequency, Mid-Range, Bass).

There's a hugh amount of tech in the SE's, for example there's a dedicated DSP just to manage the rendering with the HF DAC pairs ... I believe this approach has been adopted in the Ultra DAC as well.

Can the SE's (or 8x8 or Ultra DAC) be improved... I hope so ... that's what R&D and Meridian are all about. One day there will be a SE mark 2 ... and a mark 3 ... etc.

Till then use what you have to enjoy the music... and upgrade to the v6 spec as and when you can.

Regards,
Carl

Carl / Ludwig, Many thanks for your replies .

Carl, re your commentisn't this what is happening with the 818/808 DACs when connected to the DSPs - ie there are DACS in both the source/pre amp and the speakers, so are we not already experiencing DAC duplication?

No. The DACs in the 8x8 are not the same as in the SE speakers, they are less advanced ("inferior" if you like).

The Ultra DAC is about level in quality with the SE DACs. I think of the 8x8 DACs as being an excellent freebie for headphone use.

I would say that it is extremely disappointing that the 818v3 featured new analogue output cards which clearly aren't up to spec with the SE DACs. I don't care about the lower price of the 818 vs. the Ultra - it's an 800-series device and we had every right to expect that its *new* DACs would be of commensurate quality and technology to the contemporaneous SEs. If I wasn't using my 818v3 with SEs, I would feel *extremely* short-changed. I still do a bit when I listen to my headphones. I don't feel that Meridian should be let off the hook here.

Edit: As an aside, if I choose to search for an "ultimate" headphones experience, what I buy probably won't have a Meridian badge on it.

How do we go about this? Does anyone here still have a sympathetic ear at M?

Anecdotally speaking, it seems the loyal fan base here is getting more and more restless of late. The hard core has already moved on to Roon. Which is fine if you consider M's strategy to produce high quality DACs, endpoints and speakers to work with both Sooloos and Roon. But now I detect increasing doubts and questions about even the M hardware, including by those whose knowledge, experience, history and -investment- in M products is substantial. I'm a mere newbie but I do share these sentiments.

The usual response is: buy and enjoy what's available now, but I'm not sure the experts here truly know what's available now. I've been considering SE DSPs for a while but maybe I should stick with an analog backend and save up for the Ultra? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, you buy what's available now, but I'll bet that I wasn't the only one who thought that the 818v3 DACs were absolutely state-of-the-art. So I do feel let down. Kind of like the announcement of the iPad 4 after the iPad 3 had only been out for six months; only far more (£££) so.

What annoys me is that there is now so little information available now, that our collective (HH) knowledge is now inadequate; and there are other things that have been alienating me slowly:

• That the "MQA" upgrade to the 818 didn't feature analogue inputs which would take an LP input with "MQA-like" transparency.
• That the 818 still doesn't have room correction.
• That the ID4x is restricted to 96k, even on the Ultra. [Presumably Meridian is banking on the fact that we'll all be listening to nothing but MQA...]
• That Meridian speakers are not available in domestically sympathetic finishes.

Anyway, MQA is nigh and my 818v3/7200SE combo is awesome and will be able to take advantage of it, second only (probably, YMMV) to the 818v3/8000SE combo. I have been waiting for so long, but I'm still really looking forward to it. Meridian makes great kit and I love listening to it.

But... in the last year or so, my eyes have been opened somewhat as I've been exposed to the world outside of Meridian.

Indeed.

That's what I sensed from others as well.

Yep


I'll add:

• That Control:Mac still doesn't play to the local output without hiccups.
• That managing playlists using Sooloos is still tedious as hell

Soundserge

Having recently compared SEs fed with an 808v6 to some high end analogue gear, I can't say I feel you're being short changed in any way.

SE speakers fed by one of the reference endpoints is the best system I've ever heard by quite some margin. With MQA, even 5200SE produced the least 'hi-fi', most real sound I've experienced in recorded music replay.

Remember, as others have pointed out, that in a DSP setup, the 818/808 are not acting as DACs. The DACs, wideband amps, and drivers in the SEs are state of the art, and designed to work specifically with each other.

The Ultra DAC, on the other hand, might be state of the art too, but it will then meet unknown interconnect cabling, amps, and they will meet unknown speaker cabling and drivers...

Very good points. The holistic package of the latest DSP SE will take some beating. Not that it cannot be done but the amount of traditional Hifi tweakery required must not be ignored.

Just been fortunate enough to see Così fan Tutte tonight at Covent Garden. Wonderful performances all round, and a reminder of how a lot of Hi-Fi doesn't get it anywhere near right (at least not when compared to the real thing, as opposed to other hi-fi).

My very recent MQA through SE's demo was sharp in my acoustic memory, and I still think it's as close as I've heard - very 'real' with no false detail, etching, etc. In fact, the startling thing about the MQA tracks I heard through that system is how the normal hi-fi descriptors became completely meaningless, which was liberating.