Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion MQA - Related technology, products and music Multichannel MQA

MCH (at least 5.1) on MQA would seem to be a natural application since DTS Neural already provides a pretty good and robust decoder by burying digital "download" code in analog stereo signals that can even pass through FM demodulators on NPR, and is in use by American Public Media and other classical music webcasters. It would seem to me that such an "un-zip" coder could share the 8 bits that MQA uses to "de-blur" the A/D conversion error without much of a headache. Even if it is not 100% efficient, it still could offer 5.1 HD streaming with about 2 mb/sec rates - well within many distribution channels, and significantly less than the 8-10 mb/sec rates required with conventional technology.

Why is this important ? Well, despite Robert Harley's enthusiastic review in TAS and Atkinson's lukewarm endorsements, there is a lot of skepticism about and pushback of 2-channel MQA for a couple reasons. 1) Nobody is enthusiastic about spending more $ to recreate their entire library of 2-channel audio just to have it encoded with MQA, and 2) the theoretical basis of MQA has not been described in any detail by Meridian (probably for IP reasons), and so has been seriously questioned by the entire non-Meridian digital planet, particularly the computer audio community who has worked hard to debunk the entire MQA "fairy tale" from day one. (The DSP algorithms that provide "apodizing" analog reconstruction with no "pre-ringing" are generally accepted, but the encoding part and the additional 8 bits required to accomplish it appear to be the issue.)

The "killer app" for this technique is multi-channel (MCH) streaming with Meridian's time-accuracy based digital filtering. The reason for this is because almost every major symphony orchestra in the world is archiving every performance they perform in 5.1 digital audio, usually at 48KHz / 24 bits or better resolution. This particular music format (large-scale acoustic) has the most to benefit from BOTH accurate digital reconstruction, and multi-channel playback.

The Berlin Philharmonic has an excellent 5.1 / HD video streaming service using H.264 technology that I subscribe to using my Oppo 105D media player. It sounds surprisingly good, and the video is exquisite and adds to the enjoyment of the entire experience. These webcasts can even be watched "live" and give the feel of being in the hall and the audience. I can only imagine how much better it would be if they used 5.1 MQA for these webcasts in the future. I only hope that Bob Stuart has watched one of these broadcasts and considered how good a fit his technology would be for this particular application.

I have to disagree with this. I think the MQA folks have been unusually transparent. Besides the various talks and presos that have been held, they've given a lot of info to the Stereophile/TAS folks. More importantly, the patent is super detailed regarding how it works.

Fully agreed, Don. I spoke to Bob Stuart about this a while back.

Indeed, looking forward to a MCH MQA showcase on the 861v9 with "perfect" MCH material on SE speakers.

Ever since I heard a MCH DXD in full resolution demo @352.8kHz I was awestruck and I hope that one day MCH MQA can recreate these moments perfectly.

But who know if MQA needs a fitting name for MCH. 3D sound is 'OLD', HD is ok, Immersive is what you want.

"Immersive MQA" seems like a fitting brand name for MCH MQA preferably with height speakers support.

As much as I appreciate MCH music and think that an MQA version would be great, I would not want it to interfere with the dreadfully slow roll-out of regular (mono and stereo) MQA. Let's give MQA a chance to get a foothold before wishing for too much else. It may be fun to conjecture about new uses for the process, but at this point in time I am worried about whether MQA is actually viable. I have heard it and own quite a few titles. I feel it is a truly great development in digitally recorded sound. However, the availability of software, either for download or streaming, is critical to MQA's success and many proposed timelines have come and gone without any new releases. If not for 2L and and a meager 4 other titles, there would be no MQA to listen to right now at all.

So let the powers that control MQA releases focus on getting us some music, lets all buy MQA titles or subscribe to sources that stream MQA and make it a success, then start thinking about other uses that may or may not be even feasible. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

I am sorry if I am putting a damper on this topic but first things first.

Wayne

I'm very much in the same place as Wayne. While I would LOVE to see multichannel MQA, I can't imagine it being relevant to the success of MQA overall.

I know of zero non-audiophiles who have any interest in multichannel music, and even most of the audiophiles I know consider it impure. Even on this board, we've seen a number of us switch from multichannel to 818's with stereo pairs. (and they were coming from 861-caliber multichannel!)

It would be wonderful, but not commercially relevant in my estimation.

Although I have had a number of conversations with Meridian about a future 861v9 and multichannel MQA/EQ/streaming, the impression I get is that their position is much like yours.

I have no interest in MQA without multichannel. I will sit on the side listening to multichannel DSD256 and DXD while I wait for the future.

No one mention MLP5.1?

MC MQA Is most unlikely to ever be on silver disc (see comments recently on HH about he lack of BD-A discs).

Therefore you would have to assume it would be streamed or downloaded.

M had zero interest in supporting 5.1 (or 7.1) in the Sooloos/streaming architecture despite being the most requested missing feature. "Not enough content" was the reason as I recall.

I cannot imagine that they would re-engineer the Sooloos streaming protocol AND hardware now to support MC MQA when the Sooloos population is in decline and even 2.0 MQA remains elusive.

IMHO the best bet would be for M to adopt Roon's RAAT protocol (which is a more up-to-date and robust protocol) for streaming end-points (note: not called Sooloos end points in the price list). This opens the door for MC which is stated as on the roadmap for Roon. The 'only' piece M would then need to do is finally build the ID5.1 card for 861v9; leaving Sooloos alone as the once fantastic 2.0 option that it was.

Sorry if I'm a bit slow on the uptake here, but why is MQA listed as one of Caskeid's few technology partners if there is no intent to bring multichannel MQA to market? Is there less here than meets the eye? I genuinely don't understand.

Multichannel MQA is not only a logical development but if there is somewhere the folding will have a MASSIVE effect on lesser size but with original quality then MCH MQA have an even better value proposition.

Also R&D into this area is very beneficial to Meridians future propositions into Immersive Audio which we do want from them in the guise of 861v9.

As for a MCH ID4x, it is long overdue Gentlemen!
Technically and ideologically it's a fit for Meridians new multichannel processor as well as attracting the purists that do like to buy alot of speakers for their setups.

This must be a win for Meridian since the do make fantastic DSP SE speakers made for music from all directions - Immersive.

It also has the potential to completely supersede distributed DXD and DSD 5.1 recordings. Which as of now are the most used carriers for MCH Hires!

What client would support a MCH ID4x? I certainly wouldn't want to move from Roon to Sooloos and the former has no MC plans at present.