Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion HiFi & HT Chat Can sound quality be measured?

Carl

ID40 and 41 are another example.

Russ

With the egotistical assumption that some of the comments were directed at me :-

The paper that Asa_Post (greetings to Exeter, my home town !) has linked to is certainly along the right lines, but there's something fishy about it and some of their initial results don't make immediate sense. Also, they've involved an "interested party" - Nordost - so ALARM BELLS start clanging immediately.

As MI' says, the paper needs to be accredited / peer-reviewed.

As Big_T says, this isn't Rocket Science, it really isn't, but not to worry as I am actually a genuine qualified Rocket Scientist !
The "hobby" does come down to enjoyment - and whatever you want to get out of it - but the question posed was "Can sound quality be measured ?". What does "quality" mean in this context ? Fidelity is clear, but is this what's meant ?

As Sir_Ron_Ekim says, true (Audiophile ?) enjoyment may not actually be found in tinkering with wires, but in the most unexpected of places !

As Altus says, vitriol ? Not from me. I just have a pathological lack of tolerance for (the dictionary definition of) ignorance.
And there are some of us who don't like to "sit by" and see others being ripped-off, because many of the companies that peddle "better sound" are simply rip-off merchants who have found a niche - complete with a gullible & deep-pocketed audience.
Research in the linked-to paper most definitely has a worth - this is exactly the kind of thing we should be demanding from all equipment producers. Measurement under controlled conditions is the only way to get representative & reproducible results. However, what "sound quality" or "better" means is different for almost every individual....therein lies the rub....
And, thank goodness, Science marches on. "Our own" Bob Stuart has recently conducted more research into Acoustics & Psycho-Acoustics, the end result being MQA.... And he has, as you should do, produced and published papers on this. If it's all nonsense, he'll be called-out on it. His findings are - and please correct me if I'm wrong here - that the previous assumption of 96/24 being the upmost necessary limit was a little "light" - and that 192/24 is the level which provides bandwidth above which it's no longer important for human hearing.
Most of the nuances we hear now are already understood : the two with most influence being the room which you're sitting in and the care which was taken (and to a lesser extent the playback chain) when the recording was first made.
I think that actually, we're in "violent agreement" !

Phew....

Bob originally thought that resolution only marginally greater than red book standard was required. But further research and assimilation of new thinking led Meridian to very bravely repudiate their former position with the presentation of MQA. In a sense this is similar to the scenario I outlined above in respect to jitter and the development of the 808. What we measure and what we can measure changes over time and can lead to startling new conclusions.

As for the research paper linked above, I think that the research was originally commissioned and hence paid for by two companies (Vertex and Nordost) for their own commercial use. But the research was conducted by the University of Manchester, not in-house. The only information I have here is what is in the link. It seems that the idea was to develop a measuring technique which both companies could use themselves and possibly sell to the rest of the industry. The recession brought the project to a premature end.

There's a delightful irony in some of these posts around the idea of 'Expectation Bias'.

Amusing to note that it seems consistently to apply most strongly to those who refuse to accept new ideas and to experiment.

I think the kit most of us own on these forums (digital) negates the need or indeed scope to 'experiment' much past replacing a digital cable or mains lead. In most listening rooms I have come to realize that room treatment needs to be factored in above all other improvements, it provides the biggest leap in fidelity above and beyond any exotic cabling I have yet to hear.

T

Well said.

Russ

+2
I still remember the day that I brought my first "shipment" of acoustic foam into my apartment - the difference was immediate & literally jaw-dropping - and that was even before it was fully unpacked & correctly installed !

+3. In my case the expectation bias was so great I could hear the beneficial effects even before it arrived.

Weather here today is great, so the garden furniture foam seats are getting a final airing before they are reinstalled as room correction for the autumn and winter.

Or maybe it's just my padded cell!

Hector

Hector - just remember that if they are striped, the stripes need to be aligned vertically.

On a more serious note, I agree that getting the room right is critical. Speaker placement and setup follow closely thereafter. I see so many setups where speakers are placed hard up against walls, or in corners, or are wobbling about on unlevelled spikes where a little care would make a huge difference. At least with Meridian DSPs many of these shortcomings can be overcome. I don't have room treatment as SWMBO will not play ball, but I do have lots of soft furnishings, rugs over wooden floors, large bookshelves and oil paintings (very effective) and sound insulation in floor and ceiling. It works okay in a domestic environment.

My experience is that once the basics above are sorted, the biggest differences to sound are in choice of speakers, then the source and then the amplification, with cables and the like some way down the list. That said, I do have exotic cables in my system but they have remained unchanged for the last twelve years. The law of diminishing returns obviously applies and as I like the overall sound of the system, I haven't felt any inclination to change them.

+4 for the room. Took me 20yrs to figure that out. Glad I did in the end. A few HHers have heard the results here and am sure hear the same as me.

Nick

I think it was never better than when the mattress was in place!

Russ