Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Streaming RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases)

My post was not directed at you - there are many posts here otherwise. Note my references to network data cables and computer networking. Not a single reference to SpeakerLink in my post, which I have always said can sound different as there are scientific reasons why they can. as for only reading other peoples findings, I have had enough listening experiences to know what sounds different and what does not without needing someone to tell me that it sounds better because of its price or special construction. My ears may not be the best in the world, but I can sure tell the difference between listening to music at 5am and 5pm. Whilst that revelation didn't cost a penny, the realisation was priceless.

Thanks for the clarification and happy listening at whatever hour!

Not read through all the pages but I am involved in a discussion elsewhere. I thought I would share a few things from that

1. Ethernet Cable Testing - AQ Vodka

2.AQ Vodka Stripped Down

Its not very dissimilar from a standard Cat 7 cable.

The results are being collated atm

Although, as I said, I personally can't hear any difference between Ethernet cables carrying data (as opposed to SL) I question whether this kind of A/B/X blind listening test is really as 'scientific' as it appears. I have pointed out on this forum before that no less an authority than Bob Stuart himself believes they are flawed for various reasons. Given how well versed he is in audio engineering and psycho-acoustics, his is not an opinion I would dismiss lightly.

Also, it occurs that IF the differences people may be hearing in this context are real, it might well be due to interference/noise suppression differentials between the cables, which would potentially be highly system/environment dependent. E.g., we know that Meridian increased noise rejection (forgive me, I can't recall of which type right now - EM?) in ID40 to ID41, with the little ferrules in the cables (important point) of the Anniversary system in between those two design iterations. From this I surmise that a) they found that better shielding or noise suppression of some kind, in the cables before ID41, was of benefit, or why bother (unless Meridian do things randomly in R&D which I don't believe), b) would the addition of correctly designed ferrules make as much as/more of a difference in this application than an apparently minor tweak in cable design, or use of exotic materials with associated price tag, c) better equipment design to suppress/reject noise at the source/receiver might mitigate this, including cleaner PSUs on switches, etc.,, d) the environment in which the system is played might have more or less interference present (RFI, etc.). It would be interesting to know if the test attempts to take into account points c and d, as well as the psycho-acoustic problems Bob Stuart raises. If it does not, I would question whether the test is itself good, or pseudo, science.

Just on a very superficial and quick search, Dynaudio use only RCA connections.

Linn on the other hand use RJ45 and seem to specify SSTP. Otherwise they claim that no digital cables, power cords or switches make any difference to sound quality. This is being debated over on the Linn forum but little attention has been paid to exotic cables.

Thanks "Asa Post" for the sharing of your experience with the Chord Anthem, AQ Vodka and SpeakerLink. It's honest experiences at home that is the most interesting.

I don't expect any epiphanies coming from another Randi round and he certainly won't test RJ45 cables in a SpeakerLink or MMHR context.

+1

Meridian Oxford posted previously on this subject and IIRC they were to enter the lion's den and arrange a demo / comparison of Chord Ethernet cable products.

Did this happen or were second thoughts predominant.

As far as I can ascertain the thread appeared and then came to nought.

Could be wrong though!

Hector

In addition to Bob Stuart, Nelson Pass also believes that A/B testing for audio is fundamentally flawed and ignores key general cognitive and psychoacoustic learnings.

For my own purposes, I find that I get auditory fatigue so quickly that trying to use that approach gets me nowhere.

All it will take is just ONE scientifically verifiably study from a reputable source showing that properly specced, designed, built and installed in a well designed audio setup network DATA cable when used as a NETWORK DATA cable carrying audio NETWORK DATA in has an impact on audio quality then I will listen. I'm not saying that you cannot change how a network data cable performs as I have abused cables in the past and caused all kinds of havoc (like running a chair over a piece of thinwire ethernet and stalling the whole network), but these do not count as they do not meet the criteria above of spec, design, build and installation, hence in this example, its a minor installation change to fix rather than an upgrade to an expensive cable.

Just ONE PIECE. Not too much to ask?

Until then, I won't listen as I know from personal experience how fallible my own hearing is even when listening to exactly the same source/environment.

As for audio data, say via MHR or PCM, I accept that and have heard it myself although never heard a difference since using kit after my 568 so sold all my high quality cables that I was using for digital audio and replaced it with well built off shelf cables. But even though I have never heard a difference, i have been given a scientific explanation why some cables might sound different and happy to accept that there can be differences between some cables but also believe that a its the design and build quality that differentiates these cables and this does not need to cost the earth nor rely on marketing mumbo jumbo to justify.

Ian,
Hear-hear, oh, er, I mean +1 !

Always interesting - whether it's data or an audio signal - nobody ever pops an oscilloscope on either end of these cables, or a network (packet) analyser & shares the results.
This would demonstrate / be the definitive proof that the cables change or have an influence on the signals.

And would end the discussion for once and for all.

For my comparison of cables I adopted the following procedures:

1. play some music. This allows the system to warm up and everyone to get used to the sound.

2. play only short extracts of music between switching cables so as to concentrate on certain key elements.

3. play longer pieces, usually whole tracks, so as to be able to relax into the music.

4. switch backwards and forwards between cables.

Please note that I am not expecting anyone to buy cables on the strength of what I have written. Nor am I making particular claims for my methods. I did what was practical and what I wanted to do. I made two suggestions:

1. if your system allows, try home run rather than daisy chain if you are not already doing so.

2. borrow some demonstration Audioquest and Chord cables and decide for yourself in your own system whether you prefer them to cat7 or cat6 SSTP spec.