Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion HiFi & HT Chat A hybrid Marantz-Meridian system for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X

I thought I would share my experiences with the latest incarnation of my system in which I’m using a combination of Marantz +Meridian processors for home cinema while retaining the 861 for music. Essentially, I've replaced my HD621 (in Restaurant FS) with a Marantz AV8802A which in addition to HD audio can process Atmos and DTS:X (the latter in a forthcoming firmware update).

Essentially, my setup is a 4.1.4 which is a standard 5.1 arrangement (with no centre channel) plus 4 ceiling speakers. The sub and ceiling channels are fed directly from the Marantz, while the front and rear speakers pass through the 861 using its analogue inputs. So for HT use, the 861 is simply a pass-through device and set at a fixed high volume to provide zero gain on the Marantz input (90 in my case). For stereo music, the Marantz doesn’t get used and sources feed the 861 directly.

What about getting channel delays right with this complicated pass-through setup? Well, the Audyssey set-up on the Marantz takes care of all that. You just connect the supplied microphone and it starts making chirping noises and calculates all the speaker distances for you. I have to say I’m impressed, the calculated distances to the ceiling speakers were within inches of being spot on. I knew from some preliminary experimentation that the 861 adds virtually no delay to the signal so I wasn’t surprised to see the distances to the front and rear channels were also very close to expectations. The REL sub was the outlier with its distance a good 4 ft longer than the actual distance. There’s obviously some latency here I wasn’t aware of.

How well does it work in practice? Virtually all my HT listening is via a HTPC (Kodi) which (via RS232) sends commands to my 861 to adjust the volume and blank the display. My Harmony 900 remote turns on the relevant devices and the Kodi menu is displayed within 20s of activation. So far, it’s been working well.

So, is it worth the effort? Well from the point of view of a HT fan, I have to say emphatically, yes. I remember the first time I compared DTS HD with vanilla DTS and thought, yes, there is some improvement here; subtle, but some improvement in definition and clarity. Trust me, when you double the number of effects speakers, the difference is far from subtle. I only have one title (Gravity) for which I have both DTS-HD and Atmos copies and for the passages that I have compared there are significant improvements to the soundstage with Atmos. However, it’s with standard DTS HD media I’ve been most impressed. (The Marantz has algorithms to include height effects with DTS HD). In Avatar, when Jake first visits the forest, you are completely enveloped by the forest sounds - quite superb. The opening battle scene form Gladiators is similarly impressive. I feel there’s a whole raft of my film library that’s there for rediscovery. Very happy, so far.

Cliff

You are a trailblazer for the HH's with Atmos, really happy you are so pleased with the results, when is the HH Bar-B-Q so we can all hear it?

Cheers

Russ

Thanks Russ. Not sure if current weather conducive to bar-b-qs, but happy to demo.

Interesting Cliff. Curious to know what you would do if the 861v9 does height channels (didn't M demo something at CEDIA or CES along these lines which several thought was better than the "real thing"?), but not object-based decoding?

Once again, a heads up from HQ would be good in helping people to plan.

Russ

I’m not sure if M have ever demonstrated anything with height channels, I may be wrong. If the v9 did venture into that territory, it would be a most welcome development and would give me some hope that they will embrace object-based audio one day. However, the Marantz is no slouch in terms of cinematic SQ and every bit as good as my 861 in rendering standard DTS HD. I’m not sure I would trade it in for anything that doesn’t offer full Atmos\DTS:X.

I’ll remain open minded however, and see what comes along from M (and indeed others). The Marantz 8802A wasn’t a big purchase in Meridian-money terms and with 4k pass-through and the latest HDMI\HDCP spec, it should have reasonable second hand value for a few years.

Cliff,

thanks for posting this very interesting information.

May I ask, what do you use for ceiling speakers? I am intrigued as to whether power handing (especially in the bass) and tonal matching are significant considerations when selecting height channel speakers.

Hi Gianni

I have Vivid Audio speakers as my mains and was advised that the best tonal match to them would be B&W ceiling speakers since they have common design origins. One dealer suggested that absolute tonal matching wasn't that critical in view of the sound hitting your ears at different angles - I'm not sure on that one and would go for he best match I could get. I went for the B&W CCM663s eventually. They have a 6” bass driver and their spec suggests they go down to 45Hz (-6dB). I doubt they achieve that but they don’t sound half bad when my I route the main channel through them. I use them with an 80Hz cross-over setting anyway. If I had a dedicated HT room I would have gone for a bigger speaker with an 8” driver but as it was I was nervous enough about cutting 8” diameter holes in the ceiling for the 663s. (The smallest current speaker from M requires a 12”x12” hole - yikes!). You also have to consider fire regs and I have installed a fire retardant back box for each speaker which also cuts down noise intrusion into the upper rooms. In summary, a fair bit of planning required.

I think I will be implementing Atmos / DTS-X later in the year via either the Marantz AV7702 or the Anthem AVM60, depending on price. I've read that the DSU facility for up mixing existing soundtracks is very successful.

I will probably take my G61 out of the setup altogether and concentrate any M expenditure on my stereo system. I'm still working on getting my wife to accept that cutting holes in the ceiling is a 'good' thing. It would seem that we have to be careful when referring to 'height' speakers now, as it can be interpreted differently in many discussions about audio coding technologies.

I'm still trying to get used to saying 'overhead' when referring to Atmos. Mind you, Dolby mention several suggestions installation guidelines.

Thanks Cliff.

Is the in-ceiling ("over head") siting mandatory or would high up the wall on angled mounts pointing down work. The first is unfeasible in my case, the second relatively simple and its a tallish room...

There's a 7702 mk2 coming out in October with DTS:X and I think it will a lot cheaper than the Anthem.

My ceiling speaker sets are just over 90 deg either side to the listening position as per the Dolby spec.I believe that's what Goldenears did for their Cedia demo and to very good affect by all accounts.

My guess also is that the Anthem won't be competitive on price. My front three channels will have Anthem amplification with the other eight from Marantz, so I guess either one has a natural home. Mind you, musical performance is important, but I think either will do the job ok.

As far as loudspeakers and positioning goes, I keep seeing several differing opinions. The Dolby document as listed above gives a fair amount of info from the horses mouth. There's also an interesting podcast over on AVForums which has an interview with THX representatives regarding their opinions and findings on immersive audio and speaker positioning. I wonder if anyone will develop 'on' ceiling dedicated speakers for those who don't want holes cut in the ceiling.