Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Streaming C15/ Bricasti DAC settings correct?

Hi everyone, happy to share that I just purchased by first Sooloos equipment, C15, and am scouting around for a DAC to feed from my C15.

I am fortunate enough to get a Bricasti DAC loan set to try at home but was disappointed that I didn't find the sound quality as impressive as the rave reviews claim it to be. The music sounded very unnatural and unenjoyable.

I experimented with the Bricasti across the range of its 15 filters, and music files (rebook, hi-res) but couldn't come to terms in describing this DAC anywhere near A+ rated.

I later read that inputs into the Bricasti should not be up sampled and be fed at its native rate. Hence I set the C15 to "force output x1", presumably bringing the digital output rate from the upsampled 24/96 down to 16/44. This was also confirmed by the lock in sample rate on the Bricasti display panel. The music sounded much more like it should, closer to how the reviewers described it (with some pinch of salt).

Notwithstanding, listening through the Bricasti (fed by C15) wasn't quite as good as when I listened through my CD player (Mark Levinson 512). The image from the Bricasti was less focused and bass is not as tight and defined, compared with my ML512. (FYI, I used the same CD and ripped it into the C15 so that music source is as comparable as can be.)

At the price one may spend on the Bricasti DAC, I would like the sound to be at least comparable to what I can get out of my CD player. Noting Stereophile articles on the Bricasti by John Marks where he used the same C15/Bricasti combination, I'm presuming that there is some merit marrying the two together. (Do let me know if I'm wrong though!)

I would like to get advice, especially those who have/had a Bricasti in their Sooloos system, on whether my setting on the C15 or Bricasti is correct? Or perhaps pairing the C15/Bricasti is not a good idea?

Alternatively, I'm considering the MS600 as my "DAC" and feed the balanced analogue outputs into my preamp. Have anyone compared the MS600 vs Bricasti? If they sound close, and given that the MS600 is much cheaper, it's surely with considering. (Only problem is that I may not have the chance to test the MS600 at home).

Thanks in advance for your advice!

The MS600 has to be tried as it is designed with the C15 very much in mind. You also are able to use the up sample and apodising available.

Let us know how you get on, also it helps others to help you by listing your complete system in your sig box.

Cheers, Chris

I think you are flogging a dead horse adding a 'traditional' DAC to a C15.

The MS200/600/808/818/861 are the natural progression for improving sound quality of Sooloos items that are an inherently noisy environment of those based on PCs such as C15 and MCxxx products.

I don't know anything about the Bricasti DAC, but if that's the route that you want to take, partnering it with an MS200 should give a sound quality boost over using the C15 as the host audio endpoint.

+1 with Ian. The digital output of the C15 is probably passing on more noise than the output of your CD player due to the PC parts onboard. Isolate it with one of the units Ian suggested (MS200 is the least expensive) and feed that into the Bricasti to evaluate.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

Cheers

George

Cool. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I was hoping that using the SpeakerLink (AES/EBU) output instead of coaxial would reduce noise, but from above, it would seem that the noise is inherent and likely to be passed along in any case.

I'll surely want to consider the MS200 or MS600 (and do w/o the Bricasti).

Have a chat with the guys at the boutique (Clemenceau Rd?). I would try the MS600 with and without your DAC. You may be pleased if the MS600 performs well. It will significantly improve the SQ of the C15 as essentially the C15 just serves the music.

If you really feel the DAC adds benefits then try also the MS200 as a cheaper network source. These work very well too.

Home demo is what you need.

Let us know how it goes.

I've been down this road many times and here is what I've observed, all in the context of the kind of system I have:

The C10/C15 digital out is really bad.

The MS600 digital out is OK, the M upsampled, apodized output is terrible. 1X output is much better. With the kind of outboard DAC you are talking about, it's going to be serviceable but not the best Sooloos has to offer. I never used it as a stand alone DAC.

The 818/ID41 digital out is the best sonic option if you want to use Sooloos with an outboard DAC. Right now I use the 818 as a preamp and Sooloos endpoint. Sonically I'd rate in as a "B-" level component. It's digital out is far superior to the MS600, again 1X sounding best. You have to fool around with M Config to force it not to upsample, so it's not as straight forward as the MS600.

IMO, if you want the best sonics, look elsewhere before you fully commit to Sooloos. Maybe this will change in the future but past history says it won't. M is focused on its whole ecosystem and has left original Sooloos owners with very little to work with...

Perspective required here.
My MC200/MS200 is far from terrible in context with my system.

People who listen have never heard better. An MS600 would be an improvment on an already excellent sound.
My referance is listening to "Live" music in the real world at small intimate venues. (I know my system has room to improve further.)

I find these descriptions of Meridian products totally misleading to the ordinary music lover.
Of course, if you are building an Uber High end system beyond the reach of most you have to balance the quality of the products you use, but such throw away criticism of what Meridian has to offer is offensive to me and of no help here to people aspiring to build systems on limited income.

Chris

+1, I would ignore sweeping statements that support the anything less than the absolute best at whatever cost must be rubbish, audition at home and if you like it enough and can afford it, buy it.

Russ

Hi,

We know you don't the M upsamping/apodised [it's well documented] and that's fine ... your ears / system etc. however, your last comment is misleading.

The original Sooloos (pre-Meridian) hardware used a fairly 'basic' PC audio card, driven directly off the motherboard's clock ... hardly audiophile quality. Now of course you can still use that original hardware if you wish, but I think you would be in a minority of one of those that say it makes a better audio source than subsequent hardware options.

As for current hardware; there are units at various price-points / AQ and if required for those that wish to drive 3rd party DACs at x1 (so that those DACs upsample) the digital output can be configured to accommodate.

Can Meridian-Sooloos be improved, absolutly and I'm sure M will continue to evolve their products.
Will they be all things to all men, no that's an impossible dream there are always compromises.

Regards,
Carl

Your statement might have been a lot more credible if you had simply stated that the "Apodized output wasn't to my liking and I preferred the 1x output" or similar... using the word "terrible" just exhibits your long stated bias against Meridian, as any reasonable reader will understand that components at this level of the food chain cannot be reasonably classified as "terrible"... "not to your taste" perhaps... but "terrible" is simply not credible to most reasonable people.

It's quite interesting that you find the Meridian 818 to offer the best Sooloos End Point performance... especially when you appear to dislike Meridian's Upsampling and Apodizing so much.

All Meridian 800 series components Resolution Enhance as well as Upsample / Apodize ALL Inputs to a 'High-Rate' 24/88 or 24/96 Stream internally within the 800 series component. All internal Processing is then carried out on the High Rate stream... with the DAC's always being fed by the High Rate Upsampled & Apodized stream.

This occurs with ALL Inputs which are fed into the 800 series component... including the input via the Sooloos ID41 card.

All the above happens by design, with the User having no option to change this. The setting within the MConfig ONLY allows the User to force the Digital Outputs to Downsample the Upsampled / Apodized High Rate stream back down to a Standard Rate stream... in order to feed components which do not accept high rate inputs.

So your own "blind testing", where you thought you were disabling Upsampling & Apodizing, seems to confirm that you may indeed prefer Meridian's Apodized or "Pre-Ringing removed" output after all.

As I say, an interesting result from a real "blind test"!!!

Another interesting comment... which IMHO again just re-states your long held anti-Meridian bias, for whatever reasons.

Having heard the Sooloos systems and components on 3 separate occasions between 2007 and 2010, [i.e. before the Meridian buy-out] I can indeed confirm that the only appealing part of Sooloos was the attractive User Interface.

Any manufacturer or User with knowledge of RFI / EMI would tell you that having Analog or Digital outputs from boxes using standard PC Components like Audio Cards... or with very little Internal Shielding... was almost certainly going to yield a compromised Audio result... and that is looking at it subjectively.

And that subjective view was only confirmed by objective listening, which confirmed that the pre-Meridian Sooloos components were compromised from an audio point of view... with high RFI & Jitter levels polluting the stream that was being sent to any downstream components.

The pre-Meridian Sooloos system was indeed appealing due to its User Interface... but lacked appeal to many audiophiles due to its compromised audio.

All of which makes one wonder what you mean by "[Meridian's purchase] has left original Sooloos owners with very little to work with"?

During its tenure of Sooloos ownership, Meridian has introduced several Sooloos components or "End Points" of a much higher subjective audio component quality... and I think it's fair to say that most reasonable people [Users and Press] have seen that advancement and commented more than favourably.

So again, you comment about previous Sooloos owners "having little to work with" seems misplaced at best.