Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Streaming MS600, 818v2 vs. EMM DAC 2X

Ronnie,
Do you believe the DAC in the MS600 is equal or better than the EMM DAC 2X currently in his system? Seems an 818 digital out would be more in line with the rest of his gear down line? I ask only because I was unfamiliar with the EMM and googled it. Seems state of the art.

Response written on phone and I read "DAC"... I didn't look it up or investigate beyond that.

My main point is that if a user is happy with their existing DAC, then it would be best to feed that with the best quality Digital feed.

And for the many, many reasons already discussed here at length, the C15's Digital out is compromised by the Jitter caused by the PC-based internals of the C15.

So as a list of things to consider, I would suggest:

1) Use an MS200 in front of the DACx2 to eliminate the Jitter from the C15 output.

2) Try to have the C15 and MS200 on the same switch... with no other PC components on that switch.

3) Use SSTP cabling from the Switch to the MS200 and C15, which helps to eliminate the propagation of any RFI along the cables.

4) Only after the above steps have been taken should the Galvanic Isolation offered by the GISO be considered IMHO.

And of course, if you want to even further improve the Digital Stream going to the DACx2, then the MS600 will offer an incrementally better digital stream than the MS200.... with the 818v2 (or perhaps 861v8) offering the currently best available Digital out.

The DAC2x being a 15k$ DAC, I would consider auditioning an MS600 or 818v2 audio endpoint with it.

This would be much improved from the C15 digital output.

Also, configure your MD600 to run the core as well to take the C15 completely out of the equation once you have an audio endpoint like the MS200/MS600/818v2.

It was a question out of curiosity to understand the data flow. I do not envision changing anything on my digital chain. And, I love my C15 - hope to upgrade that if and when Cxx comes out.

Running the core on MD600 and connect a superior audio endpoint like MS600/818v2 does not negate the usage of C15 for control of playback. It just means that the PCM signal not traverse another PC (C15).

I think buying an 818v2 just to have a better quality digital out is a tad excessive! That's one expensive tweak! I would imagine that the EMM Labs DAC is quite proficient at dealing with jitter, no?

That is why you audition products. We have seen this over and over again, the 818v2 *is* a better the source than MS600. Even with a Vivaldi stack you can clearly hear a benefit playing through the dedicated CD-transport instead of higher distorsion sources. The source matters and will continue to do so until a technical paradigm shift happens.

Agreed!

So, why then do you say that expenditure to improve the Digital Source from the current C15 to a better Source qualifies as "excessive"??

Due to the price of the 818v2. Spending that much money just to get the best digital output that Meridian offers is quite excessive, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the value of the 818v2 considering its broad range of capabilities. I just wish Meridan would create some dedicated top of the line streaming equipment for those of us with non-Meridan DACs (e.g. a device with a digital output equal in quality to the 818v2 digital output but without the built in pre-amp and DAC).

They want you to use Meridian DAC's. Why wouldn't they. Chris

I'm sure that Meridian could easily build such a device.......but how would you then feel if the Unit Price was higher than the current 818v2, due to lower Sales Volumes??

When one considers ALL the Costs that a Company such as Meridian incur in developing a High-End [and therefore Low-Sales count] device, you come up with the following simplified list

1) The Component costs for the Case, LPS, the Preamp Section, the Digital 'Engine'; the Digital Output Cards and the Analog Output cards

2) The Development costs involved in choosing the right components and the internal layout of the same to achieve low internal EMI / RFI

3) the development costs in building prototypes.......exhaustive listening tests.....tailoring and modifying the components to adjust for what they've heard.......more listening tests after those adjustments

4) Documentation of all of the above tests so that they have a track record or what has been tried and "failed"

5) and finally, Documentation and "Validation" of a Manufacturing Protocol that ensures that the Production Units match or exceed the performance of the Prototypes above

6) The extra stock costs of handling two distinct SKU's together with the possibility of manufacturing errors inherent in having two similar SKU's as opposed to one 'standard' SKU

So, if Meridian were to choose to produce an "818 No-Preamp & Digital Out only" model, they would 'save' on the costs of Preamp section and the Analog Output cards

But, their costs in all the other areas would actually increase as a result of having to develop two separate SKU's

When a manufacturer has a high-unit-sales item, the costs involved in 1) above may be the most important consideration in arriving at a 'Market' price, with the other 'development' costs being more easily spread over the higher-unit sales volumes.

However, when a low-unit-sales & high-end unit like the 818 is involved, the 'development' costs become the single biggest factor and cannot be spread over high-volume unit sales counts.......thereby leaving the "Component" costs as a relatively small amount of the final 'market' price

With the result that your desired 818-No_Preamp-Digital_Out model could actually end out having a higher 'market' price than the existing 818