Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes

One of the things I feel quite strongly about is the healthy Meridian eco-system stretching back to pre 200 series. This has to be a good thing for Meridian. There is a progress path and a liquid market beyond walking into a Premium Dealer. And 'The Restaurant' facilitates this.

There also those customers with enough cash and desire to walk into said dealer and just order whatever they want and not even have to bother about what cable goes where. But I doubt many of those people spend much time here!

I have bought stuff off Rick, an MC200, and frankly he's one of the nicest guys Ive dealt with in the industry. But he's miles from me so its hardly like I can just pop in and have a chat with him. As part of the Meridian dealer 'consolidation' exercise a few years ago, most of the dealers realistically close to me have gone.

Only the Mods know what the future holds, and if it involves better relations with Meridian itself, its got to be a better thing.

Im glad this thread has been re-opened, although I didnt see the comments that were deemed offensive. But then thats the problem with deleting posts. Here's hoping a constructive dialogue going forward.

Cheers
Greg

Well, here are my thoughts for what they're worth. I've been away for 2-3 weeks so didn't see all of this unfold so have also missed the deleted posts but seen the locked threads.

I feel quite strongly that posts shouldn't be deleted & threads locked unless it's absolutely a last resort. Sure, if someone's rude or outright offensive but that hardly ever happens on here (in my experience anyway). I don't think HH attracts rude or offensive people. Surely the mark of a mature society is the ability to listen to all views, not just those that agree with yours. I think the Mods should be man enough to take some criticism; if people don't like the way the forum's going they can always leave. Deleting posts & locking threads is a symptom that all isn't well & has more than a hint of Big Brother to it (not the channel 5 show!).

If rudeness is perceived to be a problem, what about introducing a "3 strikes & you're out" policy? The strikes could be posted on the open forum; name & shame, but as I said I just don't see it as being a significant problem.

I also can't see the loss of Reuben etc as being in any way positive. I understand they can still participate in a more remote way but that's hardly the point. Will Meridian contribute significantly to the forum? Who knows? Perhaps the Mods do, but if they do, why not share it with us? All this (seemingly) was presented as a fait accompli; again, why? The Mods could have taken our temperature, explained what they were proposing & at least paved the way, rather than just imposing it.

It's a brilliant forum and I owe it a lot but this change seems to have upset / alienated far more people than it's pleased.

Re complainers outnumbering supporters in posts here, isn't that always the case? Having read here consistently for 5 years, I KNOW this was done for the greater good of the private users, and in the opinion of the moderators, for some reasons best( in their judgement) left unsaid, in hopes of enhanced value delivered to the users over time. Given their level of commitment, I believe a wait and see attitude is appropriate. The silence of others not complaining should be noted by the moderators.

Thank you for reopening the thread and all the work done behind the scenes to make this such a civil and helpful community.

AudiogoN and eBay as alternative selling forums both have listing/commission fees. I feel it would be more than reasonable to institute a listing fee to help defray operating costs for the forum. A simple, flat listing fee would presumably be reasonably easy to administrate (certainly more so than a % of sales price).

Cheers, Ian

Just like to share my 2p as a non moderator but as someone who has first hand knowledge of some of the things that may appear hidden to most.

Much of the concerns seem to revolve around the trade off with losing unofficial dealers vs gaining input from Meridian themselves. Obviously Duncan and the mods know the reasons why it was decided to make restaurant users and PP only, but as is their site, they are free to do as they wish even if at times us others do not agree.

What I would like to reiterate though is to let people know that even though Meridians involvement in the site appears to be intangible, it is real and has been for quite some time. I am sure that anyone who has visited a PP whilst Meridian have been present, such as the many product releases that have happened the last year or so, will, if they have asked the right questions, seen much openness and willing from Meridian about the benefits of this forum. This has in turn, led to opportunities to reopen the kind of dialogue that was once common which has resulted in two way communication that is respected and valued by Meridian.

I am personally aware that this year alone has seen a number of Meridian staff, some quite senior, become members of this forum. Whether their dialog becomes more open or not remains to be seen, but their names do pop up from time to time as being online showing that they are clearly actively participating in this forum and have been for some time.

Whilst this may appear to be uncommunicative, as mentioned before, the opportunity for two way communication, even if via a PP, is being made use of. But as an earlier reply suggested, forum members often get in there before any need for direct or indirect response from Meridian themselves is needed.

I too appreciate all the unpaid hard work that everyone does to run this site. And I appreciate that trade-offs often have to be made behind the scenes that can't be discussed with everyone affected.

I am absolutely sure that the moderators and owners have done their best to try and balance the past against the future and to steer the ship in a direction that they believe will provide the highest net benefit to the most number of people. Change almost always creates losers as well as winners, so it was never the case that everyone was going to be happy.

But I am also disappointed that Reuben, K4POG et al have lost a route-to-market and that we have lost easy access to them. To operate effectively, every market needs liquidity and I sense ours has just tightened. Only time will tell whether it has gone too far.

I will watch and see how things develop, and fervently hope that the majority of the bets pay off.

(Another) Duncan

Very well said, DuncanBudd, agree completely. It's different over here as there has been little M involvement at any level since Marc Koval left Meridian some years back. But we're doing ok, in large part because of the expertise from members in Europe and dealers in the UK. Thanks to all.

+1

Ken

I've been watching the messages re the changes to the Restaurant over the last few days, and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the work that Duncan and the mods do to run HH. I'm supportive of the steps taken, mainly on the basis that it takes time for changes to flow through and we should all withhold judgement until we've had a good look (and think) about the implications.

In the past I've been in exactly the position of the mods - moderating a forum on an entirely volunteer basis, and suffering the slings and arrows as a result. It's not an easy or comfortable place to be, so they have my sympathy, because it can be hard not to take the criticism personally when all you're trying to do is the right thing by a very diverse community.

On a personal note, the thing that compelled me to buy Meridian (again) after owning M3s and 100-series kit a loooong time ago was finding HH. Without the information, support and advice provided by you guys, I would never have taken the first step into a pair of DSP5200s from my NZ dealer, and then augmented those with second-hand gear from HHers across the planet. I'm sure this is a familiar story, particularly outside the UK where the knowledge of dealers is always going to be fairly thin, given their limited exposure to the products.

And one of the most attractive things about HH has been the culture of the place. In my view everyone on this forum has managed to walk a successful line of treating people with respect and honouring the intent of the community of interest. Over the years we've all undoubtedly participated in forums that by turns are insulting, pretentious, or overbearing. HH is none of these things, and is a great place as a result.

So my personal view is this: change is sometimes good, so let's see what the future brings, and let's assume in the meantime that Duncan and the mods genuinely have the best of intentions.

Just my 2c.

Cheers ..... Kent

Hi Everyone,

I posted in this thread a few days ago and have just had time to get back, I wasn't aware that the thread had been closed down but I am also glad it's back. As PP's going on the forum at this delicate time it was always inevitable that there would be some criticism towards us/me but we can't have it all our own way, I am totally up for a bit of grief if people feel they need to get things off there chest.

Like a lot of us I work very long hours running my company, and another one just being set up now (more information soon) so sometimes like was said before by the time I go on most questions have been answered, I also tell my engineers to try and participate as much as they can, they have been doing so but not under the company log in, as individuals who like all of us have a passion towards Meridian and this forum.

Hopefully like everyone the forum develops and good things come out of it.

Rob.

My views on this are in no way meant to be a criticism of the mods and site owners, because they do a fabulous job and without them we would have no forum, so thank you to them. Having said that I cannot but feel a sense of dismay about these changes. Let me explain.

My route to my current M set-up has involved consulting with and buying kit from three premium partners and from Reuben. (One of those premium partners was so-so, and two, Rick and Rob at RSAV were absolutely excellent. As was Reuben who went above and beyond the call of duty). In addition, I've had help and encouragement from several forum members. It's not overstating it to say that without all of this input I would not be where I am with Meridian. Looking at my sig you can see that this has been nothing but good news for Meridian. Now, I would not have dealt with Reuben if he had not been in the restuarant on this forum with positive feedback - I simply would not drop many grand on hi-fi to someone on eBay for used kit, and I suppose I'm not alone in this.

One of the most valuable aspects of the forum for me so far has therefore been the fact that it is broadly based community of enthusiasts who bring all sorts of perspectives, skills and propositions to the table, and most importantly it's a community you can trust. Not everyone can afford to buy new, but it's a short sighted view that doesn't see that the used market lubricates the new market.

So what disturbs me most about this move is that it seems to me to undermine the trust and community spirit, by sacrificing one part of the community who have historically received nothing but praise from other members of the community, in the hope of getting some benefit for the majority who are left. And I have to say, it doesn't sit well with me - I know we're admonished to wait and see what the benefits are, but to be honest, even if Bob himself turned up here every day doling out advice and giving hints about the future (I wish!), that wouldn't, in my view, compensate for the lurch away from the self-help and community spirit. Quite apart from the fact that the reseller section of the restaurant was a major feature and benefit of the site in the first place.

Could there be something going on that makes this worthwhile which I'm not party to? - of course there could, and people have said so much. But as things stand, the change has left me with an uncomfortable feeling that we have lost much more as a community than a couple of resellers and that the benefits we hope to gain are far from assured - at least from my point of view.

edit: of course I mean ROB at RSAV; senior moment

I may be too cynical, but I can't see how booting Reuben out of the Restaurant will be the defining moment when the Premium Partners suddenly realize that supporting the forum is actually in their own best interest. Rick at AudioImages saw the light a couple of years ago and has no doubt benefited financially from his involvement. He has certainly made a significant contribution, acting as an informational conduit between the Mothership and the Forum. He did this on his own initiative. Every other Premium Partner throughout the Meridian ecosystem has had exactly the same opportunity, and has been blind to it. The Moderators have not shared with us what new motivation Premium Partners will now have to become contributing members. I hope this works out well. It is now up to the Premium Partners to show that the trust that has been placed in them by the Moderators, and the sacrifice that has been made by the Forum, was not ill advised.