Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Would you recommend anyone buying into DVD-A or SACD?

There is a lot of pessism about the survival of hi-rez on the net, both here and on other boards, and it is justified IMO. Why?

1. The public is spending its consumer dollars on plasma screens etc worth thousands and supplementing that with crappy, cheap, surround sound audio. This report is coming from many dealers.

2. Following on 1., the public is no longer interested in audio & is spending dollars on DVDs, not CDs, and certainly not on DVD-A's or SACDs - look in your local store to see how many (if any) hi-rez discs are on display

3. The public is pretty ignorant about DVD-A & SACD - none of my friends, even those keenly interested in music, have a clue what I'm talking about.

4. The public generally cannot appreciate the better fidelity of hi-rez. A demonstration here meets polite interest with no spark of "WOW!". They recognise surround sound but that is about all, but it is not dramatically different from what Meridian does to 2ch anyway.

5. VERY few people (and count a lot of audiophiles in that) have heard how good redbook CDs can sound.

6. DVD-A & SACD titles are not always easy to track down. Amazon have come up with blanks on some requests.

7. The catalog of DVD-A's & SACDs is still relatively pathetic compared to that of CDs.

8. Even nutters like me who have a very resolving system with hi-rez capacity are not spending big dollars supporting the software. Why? The performances, the artists etc are just not there whereas there is heaps of choice, at bargain basement prices, to choose from in the CD catalog.

OK, no argument that DVD-A & SACD CAN be more resolving, but my (limited) experience is that this is not always the case - you cannot make an aural silk purse from a relatively poorly processed master.

And that is the irony. A well recorded master comes through very well on CD!!! I find little advantage to hi-rez in small scale works. Yes, there is better resolution & fidelity in orchestral cresendos & big choral works, but no significant improvement in chamber pieces, piano, solo vocalists, small jazz etc.

As for surround sound, Meridian does such a great job of processing surround from 2CH that is not an issue with me, although I concede it could be for the general population should they be educated about it & take the time to listen.

Add in the battle going on about double royalties for dual layer disks and you complete a rather depressing picture. Not a happy one in the light of the big outlay I've made here on both DVD-A (the 800) and SACD (a highly and expensively modified Marantz SA-17S1) but one must be realistic.

John

great post devil.


yup. the "average" consumer of audio products don't know any more than what circuit city or best buy or walmart offers them. and the fact of the matter is that some of that stuff does a "decent" job. it's a tiny community of wackos like us who grok with our minds and our ears that there's more out there.


violent agreement. plus the MP3 phenomenon has taught them that audio quality is less important - that can't help the cause at all.


and why would they since neither format has marketed itself properly? nor does either format have a catalog that would attract anything except hardcore audio types like us.


i'd wager that the vast majority of people only really experience audio in their cars. where they might spend 30 to 120 minutes a day commuting. at home their kids monopolize the stereo and the teevee. and listening to music is somehow "less" of a couples activity than watching the tube. another shame.


yuppers. and to your point #5, us "nutters" have systems that can make redbook sound really quite stellar - so while i re-bought REM Automatic for the People on DVD-A i'm not about to re-buy Document.

and the jazz selections are HORRIFIC.

hi-rez audio is a niche market. the ultra-pessmists would tell you that 44/16 is going to become a niche market too, btw. with wal-mart pushing its downloadable music and itunes doing well and on and on, eventually the only substantial quantity of people buying CDs will be "nutters" and those without the Internet (eg: older folks and very poor folks).

i think my 861 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. nothing comes close. but i definitely have some regrets about my 598DP purchase. it'd be one thing if the DVD-A content was there, but alas and alack

doody.

I Third every issue you guys pointed out.

I also would not recommend anyone to make the jump to DVD-A. Unless this format takes over CD, don't bother. I am purchasing DVD-A's from Madhousediscs.com and enjoy some very much but not all are very good. The last good disc I just purchased was Tommy by the WHO. It is quite wonderful for an old recording. I really wish more choices would come out.

Ron

and while we're at it...

oh, never mind. it all just stinks. what a bummer that we're gonna get stuck with listening ot crappy MP3 rips of crappy music for the rest of our lives

doody.

[This message has been edited by MrDoody (edited 05-09-2004).]

There are some shops which have a very good selection of hi-res music here (500 titles or so), but they are very rare..

Jaco

I concur, Tassie Devil's comments are true albeit depressing. I recently got a G68 but have held off on a G98 for the exact reasons outlined above.

Quote:

"OK, no argument that DVD-A & SACD CAN be more resolving, but my (limited) experience is that this is not always the case - you cannot make an aural silk purse from a relatively poorly processed master."

I agree entirely. There are definite limits to how good older recordings can sound regardless of how resolute the playback format is. Also, even when there is a discernable improvement in quality with DVD-A or SACD, IMO it is minimal. It's not the quantum leap you see between VHS and DVD or between SDTV and HDTV.

On top of all this, I also hesitate to shell out the US$6000 for a player that may be replaced by an HD capable one in the not to distant future. We'll see what happens.


[This message has been edited by xrayyou (edited 05-10-2004).]

I have to agree with John's comments and the responses, too. The thing is, as much as I acknowledge the factors that inhibit the take off of SACD and DVD-A, the quality ofredbook CDs, the dearth of DVD-A recordings and the patchy quality, every now and again I come across a DVD-A that is simply stunning.

Are not those the moments to savour? It may not be mainstream and itdefinitely isn't with every recording, but it's so deeply enjoyable when it happens. When some of us even think about, let alone implement, bespoke listening rooms to maximise our listening pleasure, for example, we've surely taken ourselves out of the realms of volume market considerations. I can't pretend that my investment in 568MM and 598DP is as sensible an investment as my original 568 amd 596 but "those moments" pay me back. "Worse", they will lead me at some point to 800 series, not G. I hope and trust that DVD-A will grow but, at the least, that it continues in support of a niche market.

Steve

I seem to listen more to DVD-A and SACD than redbook CD currently.
I do agree there is a wide difference in the quality of the DVD-A discs. I listened yesterday again to rumours of Fleetwood mac. I did enjoy the 2 channel mix played back via Trifield more than the discrete 5.1 mix.

I do have other material that i really prefer in 5.1 above the 2.0 (down ?)mix on the same disc. That is mosly newly recorded music, and not old albums that are made 5.1

Jaco

Jaco

Very interesting interview with Chris Gorog, Head-Head of both Mapster and Roxio in a local music mag. He reckons it wont take a full 10 years before CD is consigned to the dustbin of history.

To paraphrase him , what has failed music fans has been the physical distribution networks between the artists and their audience. Online retailing / downloading will certainly pi** off a few people who up till now have made easy money for doing very little but it will bring artist and audience much closer.

Sadly, I think Doody's right, kids would rather listen to their iPods and MP3 than spend on what , as a result of the DVD-Video revolution which offered discernible quality/value improvements, they now view as a spent technology (CD). Its going to be very difficult to convince them that another shiny disc with a less obvious perceived advantage (whether DVD-A or SACD) is worth buying into.
My personal dislike of all things Sony convinces me that, as long as they (Sony) join every new technology Forum around and then ultimately do their own thing in the end even if that means another format war , there will indeed be no winners.

Now where is that Porcupine Tree disc till I cheer myself up !

Manus

i have not bought into any particular format.. i have a universal player, a pioneer 656A. i can buy whatever music i like on whatever format, be it good old CD, DTS CD, DVD-A, DVD-V, SACD or even, dare I say it, MP3! My player is a transport for all and my 561 decodes the lot gorgeously. (not SACD obviously)

I believe I have won already, no matter what the Sonys of this world do. I have a stack of music and movies that I love, and (short of total destruction of my property by fire, war or material failure) noone can take that away from me. I, personally, get as much enjoyment listening to good old CD as I do from the highrez formats - its the music that does it for me - and my 561 lets me hear it at its best!

[This message has been edited by chrisgeary (edited 05-11-2004).]

I have not, but have embarked on that journey. I've ripped my CD collection to uncompressed WAV using EAC and can't wait to hear it de-jittered with a 518 (purchase in progress), converted by a 566 (still to buy), and played through my humble 551 and trusty Castle speakers.

I owned a 561 for a short period and was astounded by M's surround processing, Trifield in particular. I can see another M processor purchase sooner than later!

I agree whole-heartedly that there is one heck of a lot more mileage to be had from red book CD, but I disagree that it will be dead in a few years time. Look at the vinyl revival... For the moment though, I have no interest in DVD-A or SACD when I can get so much more from my existing CD catalogue.

Joel

Joel,

You stripped your whole CD collection to a Hard drive and then will output PCM into a 518 straight from your PC? Let me know how it sounds! I'm building a new theater room and plan to have a PC hooked up to my system. I to have a 518 and use a 568.2mm. The 518 should clean up the sound from your PC quite nicely!

Ron