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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,569 Likes: 13
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,569 Likes: 13 |
I can't remember in what thread this was covered but an article was linked to which discussed the technical issues for and against higher sample rates. The marketing men do like to push bigger numbers means better and on the surface it seems logical but apparently things are not that simple. Meridian down sample to 96 KHz anyway and, as I understand it, there is nothing to gain going higher, in fact this can degrade the sound. I am certain someone will point us in the relevant direction, perhaps I need to re read this. Chris 
No 18 in the Hall of fame  I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall. QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into DSP5200SE via 210/ 218 zone... Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2, Mini & Flex. 596v1, 518, Foxsat HD, Sony BDP, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos. MS200 to F80 for a Roon zone
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 698 Likes: 18
Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 698 Likes: 18 |
An interesting read Coding High Quality Digital Audio by Bob Stuart TL;DR This conclusion has the following obvious implications: � The CD channel with 44.1kHz 16-bit coding (even with noise shaping to extend the resolution) is inadequate � Even 48kHz sampling is not quite high enough � Sampling at 88.2kHz or 96kHz is too high, and therefore wasteful of data � The use of sampling rates above 96kHz to convey a wider audio bandwidth cannot currently be justified Cheers Greg
M owner since '97
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88
Don't Panic!
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Don't Panic!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,733 Likes: 88 |
This conclusion has the following obvious implications: � The CD channel with 44.1kHz 16-bit coding (even with noise shaping to extend the resolution) is inadequate � Even 48kHz sampling is not quite high enough � Sampling at 88.2kHz or 96kHz is too high, and therefore wasteful of data � The use of sampling rates above 96kHz to convey a wider audio bandwidth cannot currently be justified Assuming everything in the recording and mastering chain is done correctly.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,984 Likes: 55
Knows where his towel is
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Knows where his towel is
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,984 Likes: 55 |
This conclusion has the following obvious implications: � The CD channel with 44.1kHz 16-bit coding (even with noise shaping to extend the resolution) is inadequate � Even 48kHz sampling is not quite high enough � Sampling at 88.2kHz or 96kHz is too high, and therefore wasteful of data � The use of sampling rates above 96kHz to convey a wider audio bandwidth cannot currently be justified You left out the bit depth part ~ 24 bits not needed for replay channels.... It is suggested that a channel that attains audible transparency will be equivalent to a PCM channel that uses: � 58kHz sampling rate, and � 14-bit representation with appropriate noise shaping, or � 20-bit representation in a flat noise floor, i.e. a �rectangular� channel.
Last edited by Syles; 2013-03-12 21:00. Reason: quote added
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,467 Likes: 1
Working on the ultimate question
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Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,467 Likes: 1 |
Had my 861 upgraded this week. Still getting my head around sound differences, recognizing the need to let the unit burn-in and that I will probably need to rerun room correction (as opposed to just copying in the v6 settings), but everything works fine. low bass seems better, but mid-bass worse - again, probably just need to rerun RC. No problems with ID41.
Biggest pain was probably rebulding the v8 Mconfig profile. I just don't go in there frequently enough for there not to be a new learning curve each time. But it's done.
One thing I did find was that the weight balance in the unit has shifted due to the additional weight of the LPS - took me by surprise when lifting the unit and expecting the same rear-inclined weight balance. I almost dropped the damn thing.
Last edited by Simon; 2013-03-13 00:45.
My Kit: 861v8+ID41, 800v4, UHD722, MD600, MS600, MS200, Oppo BDP-203, Genesis 201, Genesis 350 SE, Genesis S4-8 Sub, BG 520i, VTL MB450 II, Krell Showcase 7, Genesis 928 Subs, Danley DTS10 sub, SVS Ultra 16 subs.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,467 Likes: 1
Working on the ultimate question
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Working on the ultimate question
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,467 Likes: 1 |
Burn-in complete and room correction rerun. Upgrade, inclusive of ID41, appears to be quite worthwhile. As others have noted, clarity is improved, as is low bass. The bass balance change I noted before has been largely remedied by rerunning room correction, although I have found it necessary to back down a bit on the amp that runs the bass towers in my main speakers. I also find, curiously, the need to select a slightly higher width setting on Trifield (1.3 rather than 1.1). Can't really explain that one.
The best barometer for me for an upgrade is to play something I'm familiar with, think I hear something amiss with a tweeter in one of the mains, only to realize it's a recording flaw I've never heard befor. This has happened twice today.
My Kit: 861v8+ID41, 800v4, UHD722, MD600, MS600, MS200, Oppo BDP-203, Genesis 201, Genesis 350 SE, Genesis S4-8 Sub, BG 520i, VTL MB450 II, Krell Showcase 7, Genesis 928 Subs, Danley DTS10 sub, SVS Ultra 16 subs.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 Likes: 1
Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 Likes: 1 |
I loaded my filters from MRC without re-running it. Curious how you were able to do this? Actually, for this procedure, I just entered the filters manually in the room correction tab because I just wanted a rough pallet with the new unit. I have followed the procedure in the wiki after I've actually run the MRC routine and it works like a champ.
Regards, Bill
Theater: 861v8+ID41, 218, (2) DSP8KSEs, DSP7200VCSE, (2) DSP5200s, Marantz UD9004, (2) JL Audio F113s, Roon Whole House: 218s, DSP520s, DSP 320s, Roon Office: 218, DSP3200s, Roon
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 Likes: 1
Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 Likes: 1 |
The best barometer for me for an upgrade is to play something I'm familiar with, think I hear something amiss with a tweeter in one of the mains, only to realize it's a recording flaw I've never heard befor. This has happened twice today. I can appreciate moments like that.
Regards, Bill
Theater: 861v8+ID41, 218, (2) DSP8KSEs, DSP7200VCSE, (2) DSP5200s, Marantz UD9004, (2) JL Audio F113s, Roon Whole House: 218s, DSP520s, DSP 320s, Roon Office: 218, DSP3200s, Roon
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,161 Likes: 4
Senior Shouting Officer
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Senior Shouting Officer
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,161 Likes: 4 |
Just burning in and getting used to the v8 upgrade, still some tweaking need with Movie sound (I think the re-run MRC didn't bring the best results). Voices have a tonal accuracy and weight that seems much improved even when using the Centre Elevation feature. Already this seems a very worthy upgrade to me.
Music is stunning, as others have said. Poor recordings need some help but great recordings have incredible grip and presence possibly aided by the new tweeters in 7200.2s/HC. Another reason why I want Lossless 5.1 in my Sooloos System.
The other real bonus for me was the surprising sound quality from my v4 and 'recycled' ID40 with DSP5000s. In a different, smaller room but, really enjoyable and a great use of resources. Thank You M!
An especially BIG Thank You to Rick and all at Audio Images for an exemplary install. 'Premium' in every way possible.
M
Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 153 Likes: 5
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 153 Likes: 5 |
DS from Natural Sound, Framingham installed the hardware and firmware upgrades to our 861 (now v8) and 7200s (now .2) yesterday. All went smoothly. Still within burn-in period, but can easily hear significant improvement. Warmer, more musical and natural, great separation between instruments/performers. One minor but cool feature on the 7200.2's - upon powerup, the display first shows "Meridian" for a few seconds, then "7200.2" for a few, then normal source and volume indications.
Main: 861v8, 818v3, 8000XE, 7200HCUSE, 7200.2, Roon Nucleus+, Shunyata Everest w/ Sigma XC and Alpha NR's, HD621, Oppo 103D, Panasonic P60ZT60 plasma. RJ45 switch on master SpeakerLink lines to select 861 or 818, Etherregen & ENO AG feeding the 818, M-Links. Room #2: 5200.2s from M218.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 46
Mostly harmless
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Mostly harmless
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 46 |
What is the center elevation feature? I have my center on the floor below my screen, so I'd love to make the center sound like it is in the center of the screen - I hear trinnov can do that.
Oh, that a man's reach should exceed his grasp.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 485
Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 485 |
You can buy Meridian Speakers and get center elevation. Try Google  Link for a review here
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