Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems SpeakerLink used as Digital Out (XLR or SPDIF) plus COMMS and RS232

SpeakerLink Connections and Conversion

The two grounds are for the master and slave comms connections. AES doesn't really need the ground, but either can also be used when SPDIF is required.

Tx and Rx are transmit and receive; used for RS232 connections (control / firmware updates), note a ground connection is also required.

TIA-B cable colouring

All the best,
Steve.

SpeakerLink to AES/EBU without Comms



SpeakerLink to AES/EBU plus C5 Comms



SpeakerLink to SPDIF plus C5 (inc. Slave Comms Return) OR M5/S5 Comms

Your a top bloke Steve, thanks for helping folk out.

Regards,
Carl

Meridian Comms

The Meridian Master or Slave comms signal via DIN or BNC is the same it's only the connection type that is different.

Thus for those that require BNC comms; a BNC connector can be fitted rather than the DIN plug, to the same two wires as detailed in the diagrams above.


For RS232 control or firmware updating ...

The RS232 DB9 connector pinouts are standard, see this site DB9 Connector Pinout

Pin 2 = Rx
Pin 3 = Tx
Pin 5 = Ground

However, in the case of Meridian a "NULL MODEM" female connection is required, thus rather than Rx to Rx / Tx to Tx the wires need crossing so it becomes Rx to Tx / Tx to Rx when wiring up.

Regards,
Carl

Excellent diagrams. What's the Slave comms connection on the C5 DIN all about?

Hi VK,

It's to enable two-way volume control/display between say Sooloos and processor.

Regards,
Carl

So (a) do I need it for attaching an MS200 to a 562 (would it allow the 562 to let the MS200 know that volume has changed, for instance?), and (b) if I don't, is there any harm in having the slave connection hardwired?

Hi again,

A) Yes, that's correct.
B) No harm at all.

Just think of it as connecting two components with a C5 cable, so that each unit can command and be commanded by the other.

Regards,
Carl

Connecting to a 3rd party DAC with a XLR input.
Is this all that's needed?
Is it better than the SPDIF out of a Control:15?

SpeakerLink to AES/EBU without Comms

Hi,

Yes that's it, it might sound a little better than SPDIF, but most likely given the source is a C15, it won't make much difference if any, but it's worth an experiment.

IMHO to really improve the AQ from a C15 you should consider adding a network connected Sooloos Endpoint. There's been lots of discussions on their relative merits in other topics. Try Google Searching the forum and post any follow up question in one of those topics.

Regards,
Carl

To my ears, there is no discernible quality difference between SPDIF & AES (SL) on C15.

In my system with a MS600 the SpeakerLink out is darker sounding than coax to my DAC. I think what works best for each user is system dependant. Worth trying out.

Does this also work for SpeakerLink input? I have a 3D Lab Nano Transport which has SPDIF and AES/EBU outputs. The manufacturer says AES/EBU is the preferred connection method.

So if I can connect this to a SL input this would be awesome.

Frans

Hi Frans,

That would work just fine.

Regards,
Carl

Thanks Carl,

Does someone know a good address for making this cable?
Of course in the best quality

Frans

Hitchhiker MI' on this forum, he is the man!

Russ

Hi Steve,
I've been looking at the diagram for AES to SPDIF, and as far as I can make out, the AES- feed is simply loaded to ground. Only the AES+ is utilised for the SPDIF signal, is that right? If so there is no benefit from having a balanced AES signal in the first place - or have I missed something?
Cheers, Trevor

Hi Trevor,

Your observations are correct.

The use case you missed is when a given device only has a SpeakerLink output and needs to be connected to a SPDIF input i.e. there is no choice.

Regards,
Carl

Another option would be to use the wiring as below:

SpeakerLink to AES/EBU without Comms


Along with a XLR to RCA transformer at the endpoint.
This would keep the balanced benefits.

All the best,

Steve.

Given these cables can connect SL and legacy equipment what is the point of an AC12 when you could just have a conversion cable ? Or does the AC12 do something else ?

Piece of mind knowing it's all Meridian, as for functionally very little. Though if you want galvanic isolation, one needs to use a XLR to RCA transformer at the endpoint or just use Robert.W's Reviver
which has them built in.

Regards,
Carl

AFAIK, Robert's Revivers do not use impedance-matching for balanced XLR to single ended RCA conversion. Do they use a resistor network or something else?

VK,

My Reviver is USING A BALANCE TRANSFORMER!

Why do think it's a simple resistor network?

The circuits and craftsmanship of the Reviver is professional
and optimized for best sound quality.

We tested 15 different transformers before the final decision was made to get the best sound and of course fulfill the technical specification.
Also other little parts are built in for best performance.

The Reviver IS NOT A SIMPLE CABLE SOLUTION.

There are reasons why it's more expensive than a cable solution but still far away from the Mothership solution. The price is very acceptable for that what you get in terms of sound and quality of craftsmanship and technical specification.

Robert,
I am on vacation right now till the 28th of March and can only reply when I have time and access to the internet-sorry.

Hi Robert, I'm happy to stand corrected...

Quick thanks to Steve for these diagrams. From these and a great design from Duncs, I have made a (working!) SpeakerLink to SPDIF + two-way (C-lead) comms adapter (pic to follow).

Note, you can use a Lundahl impedance matching transformer to do the AES to SPDIF conversion. Not cheap (£18 + shipping from Canford), but no other options at the moment.

Wire as follows: connect the AES+ (pin 7) and AES- (pin 8) to the 110 Ohm side of the transformer ground is not connected) and the +ve (centre wire) and ground (screen) of the SPDIF coax cable to the 75 Ohm side of the transformer.

Looking at the data sheet, it’s best to wire the transformer between AES+ and AES- to get the correct 110R load.

Here are some transformer examples below:



Steve

Hi VK,

Does the transformer pass 96kHz?

Regards I

It must do as the MS200 is set to 2x

Pedantic

Figure 3 of Syles informative post

Should read

INPUT
AES3
110 Ohms (not W)

Discussed with Steve

Hector

Could I please check that I have the comms cabling correct to connect an MS200 to a DSP33? Could anyone confirm this is correct or put me right?



Many thanks for all help.

Hi,

Looks good, except that pins 1 and 5 should be linked in the DIN plug.

See SpeakerLink to SPDIF plus C5 (inc. Slave Comms Return) OR M5/S5 Comms diagram in first post.

Regards,
Carl

Thanks Carl

I had looked at the diagram you refer to but couldn't square it with the comms pin outs in Duncan's info, which for the master speaker comms input does not have 1 and 5 bridged. As far as I could see only the slave input is bridged in this way. I expect I've got it round my neck again.

I just double checked using this Comms Wiring PDF from the Wiki.

I think you're right, though it probably does not matter if they're are linked; there was a tech note about having to do it when using an AC12 see AC12 M5 Load Modification.

Regards,
Carl

I would like to connect AES/EBU to SpeakerLink.

I want to connect my computer to a DSP5200SE. First I connect the computer to M2Tech Hiface Evo using USB. The Evo has AES/EBU output as well as SPDIF using RCA.

I hope AES would be better than SPDIF. So I want to connect the Evo AES output directly to the SL input of the master speaker, using the wiring provided by this thread.

Is this a good idea that should work?

Yes it should work, you'll need to consider how you control the volume.

Good idea depends on what you mean? Playing music through Meridian DSPs always strikes me as a good idea!

Regards
Richard

Ha, yes always a good idea.

Thanks for reassurance with AES to SL. I read somewhere that the digital audio part of proprietary SL is not quite the same as AES because it has certain voltage differences. I was concerned that these may be important and might even be harmful to the speakers.
Please say if this could be a snag.

I thought I'd control volume at the speakers using the MSR remote.

My understanding (and I'm not doing this, it is simply my understanding) is that SL is not AES/EBU but the difference is more about the application of the standard than a significant difference and there's been several folks advocating wiring plans to convert SL to AES/EBU and I've not seen anyone come back and say it doesn't work. The DSP5200s do have clipping warning lights if you do end up feeding them too high a signal.

If you're concerned about it speak to Robert who makes and sells the reviver, that's certainly the cheapest off the shelf option and clearly works well (I have 3 of them). OR look out for an AC12. But those solutions do SPDIF to SL not AES/EBU.

Richard

I have run SL (MS600) into AES (ID30 in 861v4) using a simple cable and it worked great. I don't know if it sounded better than doing it the simple way with SPDIF, but at least I made the effort...

Many people have gone SpeakerLink (out) --> AES we know that's fine.

However, Springlike wishes to go AES --> SpeakerLink (in) ... I suspect it will be fine but I'm not aware of anyone doing the before. If any has don't be shy.


Springlike,
I look forward to hear how it goes.

Regards,
Carl

This connection works using the wiring provided by this thread:

AES (out) --> SpeakerLink (in)

I used it to connect my computer to the SL input of a DSP5200SE. There was no clipping. Sound quality was comparable to reasonably good quality SPDIF coax, certainly no worse and possibly better in some ways if you have better ears than me.

I used M2Tech HiFace Evo for asynchronous digital to digital conversion from computer USB. The Evo provides both SPDIF (coax and BNC) and AES digital output. I used an AES --> SL interconnect made by MI' using good quality S/FTP CAT 6a cable.

Many thanks for the update, glad you're up and running now.

Regards,
Carl

Hi everybody,

This weekend I tried to connect the SPDIF out from my receiver to the SpeakerLink in on my M6's. I was looking at this thread where Syles enumerates the functions of the pins in the SpeakerLink connection. I made a quick breakout to go from SPDIF out on my receiver to SpeakerLink in on the M6. I followed the guide, connecting AES+ and AES- to the brown/white and brown wires, respectively. Ground went to blue/white. When I connected the ethernet cable to the M6 speaker, one of the resistors fried (the 55Ω that goes from the AES- to ground). Needless to say, I unplugged everything very quickly!

After the smoke cleared (fortunately only the resistor was damaged), I plugged in the ethernet cable into the SpeakerLink in connection on the M6 again. This time the other end was unconnected so I could measure -- I got +12v from the brown AND brown/white wires relative to the blue/white wire (which I assume is ground).

Do you have any idea what is going on here? It seems odd to me that the SpeakerLink in has +12v for anything, but definitely not something I expected an AES digital input would have.

I thought SpeakerLink could power the MS200 on later DSP speakers. Perhaps this is the issue. Chris

Sounds like the issue is likely as Chris suggests. The two different standard wiring maps for RJ45 connectors may be the reason you ended up with the wrong pins connected. I would take great care taking the wire colours in an Ethernet cable as the same as pinouts. Either crimp your own plugs or look very carefully at what's connected to each pin at the plug end, presuming you can see it, with shielded connectors you often cannot.

Good luck

Richard

Just to add to Richard W are you using a crossover cable.

Yes, the MS200 can be powered by SpeakerLink DSP speakers.

It's definitely not a crossover cable, it's standard, el-cheapo Cat 5e cable. I'll post a pic in a minute of the termination, but it's standard orange/white to brown (from top to bottom). Even if it were a crossover cable, we'd have to assume that the master and ground were then powered at 12v ... that seems unlikely.

Interesting. Does this change the pinout in anyway? Are the brown and brown/white lines still the AES lines? If they are, then maybe I just need a transformer rather than a resistor network so that the voltage is balanced across the two sides?

Here's a shot of my cat 5 that I'm using for testing Blurry photo of an ethernet plug

There is 12v phantom power on pin 7 when connected to the master speaker. This is what would power a MS200.

Only Pin 7? That means I must have a short somewhere. Pin 7 doesn't connect to the 55Ω resistor that fried, just pin 8. Time to check the connections again.

Meridian told me this is only to be relied upon with SE speakers. Previous SL speakers need to be tested to see whether they work OK.

The discussion was concerning 5200SL that my parents have. The MS200 was not (reliably) powered by the speakers, and having added the PSU all problems disappeared.

I have a pair of M6 powering a MS200 with no problems.

No short in the cable. When unconnected the brown and brown/white wires are connected at all. When I connect the plug, the two wires are 4Ω to one another.
The ground is 240Ω from either the brown or brown/white wire. I've checked this on both speakers.

I then thought of checking to see if any other wires were connected to ground. The orange wire is, as expected. When Connected to the SpeakerLink in connection nothing else was. When connected to SpeakerLink Out, however, the green wire is also grounded.

Anyway, if the Brown & Brown/white wires are AES, and they supply phantom power, then they both need to be +12v (relative to ground), because otherwise you'd never get audio signal to flow, it would be swamped by the difference of +/- 12v.

So, it could well be that I've got phantom power and the difference in impedance in my resistor network was enough to pull some current from one leg to ground, frying the resistor. Switching to a transformer should help the situation.

I'm still not sure why the 7 and 8 pin are so low impedance to one another? Maybe that's an effect of powering them both through phantom power?

This is confusing. Time B&B (that's bourbon and bed)

So, the answer here is don't use a resistor network, use a proper 75/110Ω transformer and this all works just fine.

There's some finagling to get the serial comms working from a PC, but it's not difficult

The images in the first post of this tread (#178875) don't show up anymore. Instead, there is an image with a grey background saying "Please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting". Is that only me? Would be great to save those images somewhere, one of the most useful post ever.

Thanks

Hi,

It’s everybody... PhotoBucket changed their policy and now only allow 3rd party viewing of images hosted on their site for a fee.

I have the drawings and ment to update those posts ... but it slipped my mind.
I’ll dig them out.

Regards,
Carl

Thanks Carl

I would have updated this, but you can’t edit posts over a certain age.

All the best,

Steve

The Steve's "SpeakerLink to Legacy ..." drawings are now hosted here in the Gallery and I've updated the image tags in the post to point to them.

Regards,
Carl

Hello everyone!
I am new to the forum, and I urge you to help me.
In my system there is a zone processor Meridian 218, it is connected to the main audio system via an analog output.
I`m use Intel Nuc with ROCK ( with iPad as Roon remote)
I recently purchased DSP 420 speakers, and would like to connect them to a Meridian 218
As I understand it, for this I need an Speakerlink to Legacy DSP cable SL-M5 + SPDIF adapter
https://www.meridianunplugged.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=177363
Where can I get it?
Replacing the internal board with this would be a better option.
https://www.meridianlegacy.co.uk/product/dsp420-rj45-pcb-su0359/
Dsp420 rj45 pcb su0359
I tried to connect the DSP 420 speakers to the Meridian 218 digital output via SPDIF, however in this case I cannot adjust the output volume ...
Perhaps there are other options for adjusting the volume via iPad ( ROON Remote)?
I will be very grateful for any help in this matter!

I want to do exactly the same. Do I understand correctly you used used the wiring from the 1st image of the 1st post and used it the other way around? Or is an image missing from your post? I am a little confused to which wiring diagram you refer.

According to the specs AES/EBU should use and accept voltages between 2 and 7 volts. My source has 5v on the AES. I remember reading Meridian is using a lower voltage on the SpeakerLink?

Greetings!

I've been looking for a long time and can't find an AC12 to pair my 5500 and G68 with SpeakerLink outputs.
How many do you need? Judging by the fact that the outputs from G68 to each speaker are separate, I understand that you need a pair of AC12?

Is it possible to find parut and how much can it cost?

Will it be enough to connect only the SPDIF signal, and a DIN connector for each loudspeaker, or is it necessary to connect the RS232 as well?

In what mode should be 5500, both as a center channel? Will the G68 turn the 5500 on and off and still adjust the volume?

I read the topic discussing SpeakerLink Connections and Conversion and ordered LL1574 AES/EBU to S/P DIF (110:75 Ω) impedance matching transformer. There is an idea to try to assemble the converter on your own.
Are there any nuances with the assembly or is it possible to simply connect the transformer to break the AES+ circuit by shorting AES- through a resistor to ground?

I would appreciate any information, thanks in advance.

if you have the transformer you just need to connected it directly to the AES + and - no resistors required.

Thank you. That is exactly what I will do.

Does any of the guests of the resource have experience in pairing DSP5500 (5000 or 33) and G68 from SpeakerLink outputs through AC12?

I'm wondering the exact same thing for my setup 2 G61RSL, if I ever want to upgrade to legacy DSP's...

I wonder is there a Hitchhiker out there who perhaps still makes a custom SpeakerLink to legacy DSP solution out there?

Perhaps somebody here can point me in the right direction?

I'm about to buy set of DSP33's, and would love to connect the to a G61SL.

A doubt come to my mind.

If I connect my DSP7000 with a Meridian 218 Zone Controller and convert the SpeakerLink output to SPDIF and M5 Comm, I will be able to control the DSP7000 using the phone app? To turn on, off, volume up and down, this kind o things?

Thanks.

I want to control my DSP7000 using the 218 SpeakerLink output.

Does someone know the adequate speaker settings for it to work? Should I set the speaker to controller, auto or non-controller?

The proper cable will be SpeakerLink to M5 or to S5?

Thanks for the support.

THe easiest way would be to use an Meridian AC12. RJ45 from 218 to AC12, M5 cable from AC12 master comms out to master speaker. Master speaker would be set to auto or not controller.

Bit confused as you say same two wires, when diagram shows 3 wires going to C5 OUT from SpeakerLink OUT.

Should I be looking at the M5/S5 OUT ?

What is the Slave Comms Return connection on C5 OUT ?

The SPDIF makes sense to me, just the comms connection that is confusing me.

Looking to take a speakerlink out (from a G65) to a 5200C (with legacy connections).

Thanks

SpeakerLink out Audio is AES3 you will need to convert to SPDIF.

Thanks for getting back to me.

I too am looking at the LUNDAHL LL1574 to match the impedances between AES and SPDIF (as opposed to building the resistor circuit).

Does anyone know what's inside the AC12?

It would be interesting to see which method it uses - as I would do the same, if possible.

My Master Slave leads (made by Meridian) do not seem to have anything going to Pin 1 (at either end)?

If I use a LL1574, to match the impedances across the 2 networks, do I need to worry about voltages?

I will be coming out of the G65 using a SpeakerLink output (AES) and connecting to a DSP5200C (SPDIF). Are the voltages the same across both these?

Or, will I need to use resistors as a voltage divider to lower the voltage on one side?

Hi!

The images with the schematics aren't loading. They must have been lost over time. Does anyone have them saved to their computer? Please share.

I'm trying to connect a G68 with a SpeakerLink and a DSP3100 with a SPDIF. I have a Neutrik adapter, and connecting it is straightforward.
However, I'm having trouble with the M5C5 pinout. As far as I can tell, the DSP3100 connector has different pins than those shown in this image.

This image is from Google; the original has disappeared...

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ulqc...lg5i2jloqgfc4fu&st=twjtkbyi&dl=0

Thanks for your help.