Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems DSP speakers? Worth it?

I second Rob Hunt's point (and those expressed earlier) that speakers are the most subjective component and you really must listen to see what you like. No amount of technical/marketing papers justifying one line of reasoning would sway me without this personal test.

I don't particularly care for the sound signature of Meridian speakers, however, this doesn't mean that they are poor technically. I went for my ATC SCM system because I went to the factory, listened to them and decided afterwards.

Malcolm

I can only echo the others comments and tell you what I did and why. I have 4 DSP 8000s and 3 DSP 7000s. I love them and wouldnt trade them for anything else (until M does an 8000 successor perhaps!)

In my room, I decided I did not want to see amplifiers, although I dont mind seeing the speakers and I didnt want to mess with expensive cables- because I dont believe they really make much difference- and I like the ability to use the axis and boundry controls to tailor the sound and frankly, it just seems to me that Meridian designs a system as a whole system, although you can purchase bits a-la-carte if you should desire, and I wanted to do a system with no subwoofers and also where the electronics are in another room- requiring long interconnect runs.

the resulting sound is phenominal. I didnt go and audition many other speakers- as I view the DSPs as unique- who else makes such a sophicistated speaker in terms of its electronics?

I am extremely pleased with the resulting sound and I have had no moments of buyers remorse, even with the hefty price of such a setup.

In terms of value- as John and the others point out, remember if you buy a $20k pair of speakers, you will need an amplifier to match them and that means not just in power and sound quality, but also in terms of market cachet. So the DSPs are really not at a competitive disadvantage when compared to many high end speakers in terms of value. In terms of justification- does anyone need such expensive speakes? of course not. but then again, you dont need 5.1 sound reproduction in your home either.

I wouldnt knock the other makes- the ones Ive actually heard are all fine- but for my preferences (70% movies, 30% music- but I want "musical" speakers- or at least what I think musical is) I am completely happy with the Meridian speakers. Anyone who comes and watches a movie cannot believe how clear and dynamic, musical, and "grand" a movie can be.

Then I play them some Pink Floyd CDs and move on to DVD-As and the smiles just grow wider. Even in this busy world- I find myself making time to go and listen to something an average of 30 minutes a day.

[This message has been edited by JerryL (edited 11-20-2003).]

Jerry
Impressive System!!!

Just curious. I imagine 3 off the D8ks are used across the front. Where is the 4th one used in your (I assume) 7.0 system??

What is the overall layout and what is the approx room size, including ceiling height??

Thanks in advance
Ronnie

Ronnie,
Thanks. Yours isnt too bad either!

I wish I could have done the 3 8ks across like you have, but I originally planned the room with a perf screen in mind and then changed my mind and we just couldnt fit the 8k under there. Originally I wanted to do a 120" wide screen- but width and height came into play.

the room is a trapazoid and is about 29.5' long x 19' wide (thats an average due to the widening as you go back) and is about 8' high (its actually close to 10' but we lose about 2' due to the risers for the seating as you go back. The screen is a 16:9 96" wide studio tek 1.3 gain. I dont thnk I buy into the firehawk/gray hawk stuff- at least not yet. I sit about 14' away from the screen.

The front layout is 8K, 7K, 8K

then behind the front row of seats but in front of the 2nd row of seats are the 7k sides- these are a little wider out than the fronts or rears- they are pressed up to the walls.

behind the rear seats are the 2 8ks.

the front and rear 8ks are about 3.5' away from the side walls.

I have 2 doors in the room. one is required by code the other required to make our lives easy as one goes to the outside and the other to the rest of the house. I found that by using the graphs MRC generates that setting all the speakers to boundry produces the best response. However, for the 2 8000s that are next to doors (front left, rear right), I get a better response by using the corner setting. I also find that in this setup I need to set the LFE to -13. Of note in the version of Meridian software Im using is that to get -13 via the pc- I need to set the PC to -3 because the Meridian adds a -10 to the number. go figure. Got that by using my spl meter and test tones. I also found that the best axis settings for me (Im sitting on a riser ) are 0 for the front 8000s and +2 for the 7000. And using depth of -1.5 (bringing the sound closer to you) really makes a big difference.

how about your setup?

[This message has been edited by JerryL (edited 11-20-2003).]

While a long-time admirer of Meridian's DSP loudspeakers, for the moment I don't own them. I have some practicality restrictions that would require me to have on hand both DSP speakers and 7 channels of very high amplification.

In addition, I'd either need a pair of 861s or switch back and forth between digital and analog output. Besides, I can't afford a 7 channel setup of DSP5500s let alone a matched setup of 7Ks or 8Ks

So at least for the moment, I'm not on DSP loudspeakers. I am however toying with the idea of 7x DSP-33s, plus a killer non- M subwoofer. This would certainly suit my budgetary constraints. Then I'd just need to have a high quality amp for other speaker reviews.

Cheers,

In response to RobHunt: I completely agree with you about speaker subjectivity.

Ten years ago, when I purchased my 'analogue' Meridian 500 series system, I spent several months auditioning many manufacturers' loudspeakers to partner my 551/555/504/506 system.

I dismissed the standard black-ash finish Meridian A500's at the start of my auditioning - they didn't provide the sound that I was looking for (I auditioned all such speakers at home).

Strangely, I finally ended-up buying the cherry-wood finished Meridian A500's because they sounded subjectively far better than anything else that I had heard -and much, much better than the standard finish A500's.

My elder brother, with a similar Meridian system, subsequently bought black-ash Meridian A500's - and they still don't sound as good as my A500's!

BTW, I also auditioned many speaker cables -as I was able to audition at home from an understanding dealer. I choose VanDenHul TeaTrack cables (and VDH D102 interconnects).

Now to the point, I've also borrowed a Meridian 518 (with a 566 DAC) to integrate into my system - Meridian tell me that the 518 is incorporated in all Meridian DSP Loudspeakers. The difference in sound just blew me away (by being able to match word-length and alter the dither characteristics)!

Take Elgar's 'Coronation March', for example: in that piece is a note from a 32' church organ pipe. It's so low that you can't hear that note via my 506 or my brother's 508 at all. On my system, through the 518, the bass and vibration from that 32' pipe fills and envelopes the room. It's astonishing!

So, with that experience, I'm not just persuaded by technical arguements in a Meridian paper. I'm completely sold on DSP Loundspeakers - when I can afford it, that is.

[This message has been edited by spinaltap (edited 11-21-2003).]

[This message has been edited by spinaltap (edited 11-21-2003).]

[This message has been edited by spinaltap (edited 11-21-2003).]

Wow, you guys got some big bucks to have 4 8K and 4 7ks etc.

Malcom, I too am currently using some active speakers with matching drivers etc. Using the Paradigm Active 40's and Active Center Channel. I see you use the ATC setup.. Nice.

I really need to hear these Meridian speakers. I called a local Meridian dealer and had the pleasure of speaking with a Mr. Andy Regan who apparantly was the VP of Meridian for a while. He now works here in South Florida. Of course he had nothing but good things to say about the lineup. we had conversations in regards to Martin Logans, Krell and the like. Great experience and a pleasent gentleman.

[This message has been edited by cue03 (edited 11-21-2003).]

Jerry
My system and room is quite straightforward really.

The room is rectangular 30` by 16` by 10.5` high. My screen and front speakers are at one end of the longer 30` length and the my seating position at the other end.

I use an 800/861 V4 system as the source for 70% CD`s; 15% DVD-A`s and 15% Movies.

I have 3 by D8k`s as the front L/C/R. Each is more than 2` away from corners or rear wall and are arranged in a slight “semi-circle” and each is about equi-distant from the listening position. One thing to note is that due to something I read a long time ago, is that my centre D8k is not exactly in the centre. This is about 10” closer to the right speaker. Due to the paper I read about speaker positioning, I played around with the positioning of the centre and I did find that this repositioning did have a subtle positive effect on the performance. I also have a centre Depth of -1.0

I have 3 by D6k`s at the rear, and these are in similar arrangement to the D8k`s, with the 2 speakers at about 25 deg behind the listening, with the “centre” rear directly behind. For various reasons, my room does not lend itself to a true 7.1 implementation with sides being the main issue. However, I am adding on a purpose built room next rear, which will allow for a true 7.1 system.

I also have a D2500 sub, which I use for Movies only. It does add a very small oomph over and above that offered by the D8k`s. I will consider a more serious sub for the new room mentioned above.

The screen is an electric folding one which is suspended at the front wall and behind the D8k`s. I bring this down to accommodate the 2.35 aspect ratio movies and this keeps the bottom of the screen above the centre tweeter of the D8k. I reduce the screen size (using zooming on the projector) for 1.85 movies.

The Projector is a SIM2 HT300 onto a 10` wide Dalite HiPower screen. The projector is directly above and behind the rear centre D6k.

As I said, pretty straightforward and I`m lucky with the shape and size of the room. The house is an old one with 18" thick walls around the room with timber floors. Sound insulation is reasonable enough and the V4 Room Correction does apply a few filters which help. However, sound insulation will get a lot more attention in the new 33` by 23` by 12` size room

[This message has been edited by RHurley (edited 11-22-2003).]

i never heard M speakers.
their idea looks very sensible to me.

but i'm really concerned about:

1. price

2. total lack of my flexibility.
if i like tubes' sound - i can't enjoy it with M active speakers.
if like say Wadia CD player - it's waste of money to use it with DSP speakers (so will say that Wadia is waste of money anyway but this is another story ).
just don't think that person with above preferences has nothing to do with Meridian equipment.
even if i use 2 watts single ended tube amp with high efficiency horn speakers - i still can enjoy using of Meridian's CD players and HT processors.

3. working with M's active and DSP speakers is to be Meridian's "hostage".
what ever guy at M will decide in the future - you will have to swallow it.

i personaly preffer to keep my "freedom" and flexibility.
this is a reason that i stay far away from Meridian's speakers.

although above reasons looks like aproach/philosophy/menthal related - basicaly it's all about financial ability.

if somebody can easily afford to buy those, don't care to spend great deal on their upgrades, can fund creative solutions to overcome lack of flexibility (when and if required) - then all my points are not relevant to him at all.

[This message has been edited by Croc (edited 11-23-2003).]

Croc raises some very legitimate points. But, I dont think in reality its as bad as he makes it sound.

Lack of flexibility? in what? playback medium? name a source a full M system cannot play back? It can even playback SACD (although it would be with digital to analog and then analog to digital conversion).

In terms of picking your components? you can still pick any source component you want- although you wont get digital DVD-A compatibility right now.

In terms of tweaking? now here is a point that would probably not sit well with most traditional audiophiles. You have no need to mess around with cables- and I dont want to start the cable debate again, but I find it liberating to not be burdened with the insanity of this cable vs. that cable. I find many "tweakers" get so involved with tweaking that they stop the simple act of enjoying the music or movie. I know I fell into that trap for a little while and I didnt particularly like it.

You also dont have the choice of amps. And with tube amps you lose the choice of choosing the tubes to put in the amps. All correct. On the plus side- you gain true bi/tri amping- beyond active crossovers- you get digital crossovers, etc.

I think the only 100% accurate advice in the audio space can be- youve got to listen to the speakers for yourself. No matter what you choose, you have to figure out if your needs and your space will work well with any high end speaker. If your space is bad in an acoustic sense then even "the best" speaker in the world will not help you. Your room is the single most critical "component" to any audio system.

I wouldnt say you are forced into what M decides in the future- if you have a system that works you can always just ignore future upgrades if the cost is an issue or you dont want to mess with success. For example, you arent forced into what Microsoft does with windows. I know many people running windows 95 and 98 and both are not supported any more by MS (and who can blame them- technology marches on). Point is with technology, if my needs are word processing and spread sheets, I can easily achieve both with my old Apple IIe in the closet. Sure its woefully out of date by comparison, but if it meets your needs then you are all set. Same is true if you have a big LD collection- if it all works and you are happy with the picture and sound- maybe you dont have to "upgrade" your collection to DVD.

So while its true with the M stuff you are now in their system and therefore "married" to what they do in the future if you want to stay current, going the other way with a non M setup means you effectively eliminate the possibility of digital speakers from your setup.

Of course you can always just scrap whatever you have in favor for something else- so you arent really forced into what whomever charts for the future. In my case I traded a nice analog amp and some good Aerial speakers for the DSPs and I havent looked back. The Aerial speakers are fantastic, but I think the DSP 8000s are better and offer much more flexibility.

I also want to add that I am enjoying this thread as it is fun to examine pros and cons of various technology as well as our preferences.

Ronnie,
How do you make the rear center work? Is there something in the M software I am unaware of or are you using a 2nd processor to matrix the rear 3? I also have my front 3 in a kind of semi circle (center up against the wall and the back of the fronts is about 18" from the wall. My center is truly centered but my middle seat is about 8" off center because of a floor outlet we are hiding under an adjacent seat. I tried the seat as truly centered and not and it doesnt make a difference. I figure at my seating distance of ~14', 8" doesnt matter too much for this.


[This message has been edited by JerryL (edited 11-23-2003).]

I think at some point you say- this is very good and I am happy with it and I dont feel the need to make constant changes. Thats where I happen to be right now. You could say- well sure- thats a big invesetment so it makes sense.

In the future if M makes big updates to their components, they can be upgraded- albeit at a cost.

if you bought B&W speakers, and half way through the model life, they go to a new tweeter or new midrange, the only way to get that benefit would be to buy new speakers- so there is a cost there too.

I can tell you exactly when I "fell in love" with the 8000s- it was at the 2001 CES. My wife and I went to every booth we could and we thought the audio highlight was the Meridian setup- and thats in a booth at CES- not really the best sonic enviornment. I had subsequently demoed the 8000s at a local dealer and I was still impressed.

I wouldnt assume that the M D-As are "the best"- as with anything- there are usually a few options that could qualify as that. I do think Meridian qualifies as a leader in digital audio- in my mind they are probably the best in terms of soup to nuts.

But the bottom line is the queston was asked about opinion on these things and my opinion is they are great! Are there other options? sure. There are always pros and cons. The most important thing is to find those pros and cons that line up best with your needs and wants.

[This message has been edited by JerryL (edited 11-23-2003).]

Very good interaction and discussion among the members here. I thank you for that. Some points were brought up both pro and con that I had not thought of in my quest for a completely new setup.

There are many many speaker choices out there and one MUST listen for themselves before any final decisions are made. I already know I don't have the most perfect room nor do I have the BIG bucks to afford 8ks (front/center) and 7ks (rears).....BUT if I could find a black set of 8Ks for hopefully much lower than MSRP.. I would consider it.

But at the moment, there are other things that must get the financial preference....as in the Pre-amp and the DVD player... then comes the speakers. Until then I still have decisions to make in a price vs. performance standpoint for the G68/G98 combo. I may just get the G68 (if the price is right.) and a much cheaper, but close in performance DVD player and be able to put a couple more $$$ to the speakers sooner. Current speakers are Paradigm Active 40's and Active CC. Who knows, I may fall in love with the sound of the G68 and how it sounds with my current speakers and not long for anything else. I do however LOVE the 8ks and the 7ks.

That would be the DREAM setup if I won the lottery or happen to come across $75K for 8K (L/R), 5500HC (center), 7K (Lr/Rr), maybe some DSP420s or DSP 33 for the 7.1 configuration. But this only exists in my dreams for now. Oh well. I will keep an eye out for anyone selling 8k or 7k. maybe I find a "deal" or something.

Do the dealers that you guys use discount any of the Meridian stuff?

Thanks for reading.. I know I have been babbling.