logo

Google Search  |  Meridian Systems  |  Meridian Streaming  |  Restaurant  |  WiKi  |  Duncan's Meridian Info  |  Board Rules  |  Restaurant Rules
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,014
Vogon Civil Servant
Vogon Civil Servant
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,014
Is Listening at Louder Levels a good or bad thing??

Louder is better � The Fletcher-Munson Curves


-
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,950
Likes: 19
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,950
Likes: 19
I found the article interesting in that the effects mentioned I, like most i suspect, was already aware of.

What it did get me thinking about was actually what we are trying to achieve when listening to music. I think my views differ from the expert, but I don't think this make me wrong!

For me, when listening to music, the aim is to reproduce the original sound. Part of this reproduction involves volume matching, although I don't think of it in this was as I don't have any reference to compare volume levels against. My thinking is that, say when listening to a piano, how my brain perceives a live piano should be exactly the same as how my brain perceives a recording of the same piano when played through my speakers. So compensating with volume difference is IMHO incorrect as my brain would be behaving differently between live and recording.

What I can't get my head around is whether this is correct for all recordings, such as non live or fake recordings such as electronic music or film tracks. I suspect that in this case, it is the sound mixer who determines how they want the audio to sound, therefor if they boost the mix, that is how they want it to sound.


Meridian owner since 1992
Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, Roon (ROCK 8Gi5 NUC), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. 200/203, various Sonos (via Roon).
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 272
Hitchhiker
Hitchhiker
Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 272
As the article says:

"We are less sensitive to low and high frequencies, we hear mid frequencies more prominently (especially between 1-5 kHz)
As the volume increases, this perceived loudness difference between the frequencies diminishes"

The human voice has an approximate range of 100 Hz to 5000 Hz. When I pump up the volume, I hear the music more and my wife less. smile

QED: Loud is good.


My Kit: Trinnov Altitude 32,Oppo BDP 203, Sony 600es, Martin Logan Neoliths Mains with VTL Siegfried II's, ML CLX's, ML Renaissance, 5 ML Theaters,13 ML Vanquish, 6 ML Edges, 6 ML Axis' 8 Velodyne DD-18+'s, Pass Labs 600.8,Pass Labs 160.8, Pass labs 160.5, Bryston 14B-SST, 6B-SST,6 Bryston 9BSST^2's, 14' Stewart Screen, Berkely Alpha DAC RS
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 10
Knows where his towel is
Knows where his towel is
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 10
When I do my dance stuff, which is full of frequency range extremes, I try and mix as quiet as I can and always set the master at -3db too to make sure I have some headroom.

I had never stopped and thought about the above, but it makes complete sense as when I mix at lower volumes the levels between tracks when they change are always much smoother transitions than when I have mixed live with the music cranked up seriously loud.
In the same respect when I playback my mixes loud it always sounds smoother transition wise than when I listen at lower volumes.



It now also makes me feel a lot better about turning the parametric EQ on Alpine head units down to -5db at 3khz and still feeling it just isn't enough! smile


No Darling, I've had it months!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,202
Pan-dimensional being
Pan-dimensional being
Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,202
I agree 100% with Ian, couldn�t have worded it better!


DSP6000, 5500 centre, SW5500. Kef surrounds. G61R, HD621, MS600, MC200, G55, Lumgen,Oppo bluray player, Bluesound Node Icon
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
Pan-dimensional being
Pan-dimensional being
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
I've come to the conclusion that, for us, there is no such thing as the original sound when playing a recording. I know that, theoretically, it's meant to be the Holy Grail for us all and that many of us spend a great deal of money in trying to achieve it. We eschew the likes of tone controls on amplifiers, pay silly money for players, amps, loudspeakers and cables etc.

Yet, for all this, studio recorded music has been through a myriad of microphones, processors, wiring, mixing desks etc and has been Eq'd and Mastered by a particular individual through particular equipment in a particular room on particular loudspeakers and particular headphones. With the exception of a full live performance (and you'd have to have been there), there wasn't even an original sound to start with, as we are presented with many individual overlaid tracks.

I know we talk about things like 'instrumental timbre', 'timing', 'reproduction of the original acoustic' etc. but I really do think that sometimes we are fooling ourselves about this 'realism' because all these things relate to our own ears, prejudices and opinions. I've come to accept that the truth of the matter, for me, is I simply try to get the sound how I like it - and I've sure spent a lot of money over the years doing it.


.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Paranoid android
Paranoid android
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Peter Walker said every track has its own volume level
He was right, and about 83 dB ish is it. imho.


518, 568.2, D6Ks, D6KC, iMac dual core, iTunes 10.1 (lossless), Apogee Duet, Kuro 500A, Logic Studio, Sound Devices 702.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
Pan-dimensional being
Pan-dimensional being
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
Originally Posted by Roger
Peter Walker said every track has its own volume level
He was right, and about 83 dB ish is it. imho.

I was just about add exactly that - not about Peter Walker, but that every track has a 'perfect' volume level for me.


.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 55
Knows where his towel is
Knows where his towel is
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 55
I always felt that perceived loudness (SPL) is to do with distortion.

Take a small portable radio; ~1W of power, ~86dB sensitivity, it's hardly going to reach high SPL levels, but turn it up and it'll get to a point where you think "that's bloody loud, better turn it down"

This is one of the first things you realise with active speakers, they go very loud with hardly any distortion, you can keep turning them up, after a while you get used to the level and can turn them up again.

Back when I was a trainee broadcast engineer with the Beeb, we did a series of audio tests (using our ears), the consensus was 0.1% THD was the audible level.*

Steve.

* We also did a similar test with (analogue) video signals, it was 10% THD, we were then told that that's why people always call in and complain about the sound but never about the picture.

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,569
Likes: 13
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,569
Likes: 13
Just been to the Kelvedon Free Festival, Highlights, Automatic Slim (Think Dr Feelgood) and The Blockheads.
My ears are ringing..... Perhaps I should listen alot louder.

https://picasaweb.google.com/chrislayeruk/KelvedonFreeFestival2011AutomaticSlimBlockheads#

Link to some photos, This was a great gig

Cheers Chris smile


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best:
GIK monster bass panels, rear wall. QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into DSP5200SE via 210/ 218 zone... Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2, Mini & Flex. 596v1, 518, Foxsat HD, Sony BDP, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos. MS200 to F80 for a Roon zone

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,660
Likes: 30
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Working on the ultimate question
Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,660
Likes: 30
Originally Posted by JobSeeker
I've come to the conclusion that, for us, there is no such thing as the original sound when playing a recording. I know that, theoretically, it's meant to be the Holy Grail for us all and that many of us spend a great deal of money in trying to achieve it. We eschew the likes of tone controls on amplifiers, pay silly money for players, amps, loudspeakers and cables etc.

Yet, for all this, studio recorded music has been through a myriad of microphones, processors, wiring, mixing desks etc and has been Eq'd and Mastered by a particular individual through particular equipment in a particular room on particular loudspeakers and particular headphones. With the exception of a full live performance (and you'd have to have been there), there wasn't even an original sound to start with, as we are presented with many individual overlaid tracks.

I know we talk about things like 'instrumental timbre', 'timing', 'reproduction of the original acoustic' etc. but I really do think that sometimes we are fooling ourselves about this 'realism' because all these things relate to our own ears, prejudices and opinions. I've come to accept that the truth of the matter, for me, is I simply try to get the sound how I like it - and I've sure spent a lot of money over the years doing it.


I totally agree with you. If I was choosing equipment, I'm much more inclined to go with a sound that I like rather than, thinking well that sounds more realistic than that one.

Cheers
Tom


Main: G61SL, 218, HD621, 2*7200SE, 7200HCSE, M6s, DSW, Apple TV 4K, NUC (Roon server)
Secondary: Wiim Pro, 3200, Audio Core 200
F80
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
Pan-dimensional being
Pan-dimensional being
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
re. Kelvedon Free Festival.

Too far for me, but I'd love to have been at that. Mind you, we've just had Billy Bragg and Hugh Masekela on half a mile up the road at our local music festival.


.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Carl, Duncs, ncpl 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 717 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Kiran1103, Tony999, PhilP, Grover, Humberto
5,503 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Ludwig 10
AngryGM 10
Top Posters
VirusKiller 12,733
ncpl 8,816
Carl 8,506
Fiddler 8,364
Ian 7,950
Forum Statistics
Forums18
Topics31,244
Posts297,388
Members5,503
Most Online4,788
May 22nd, 2026
Meridian  |  Media Centre  |  Support  |  Firmware Release Notes  |  RSS Systems  |  RSS Streaming  |  RSS Restaurant

Website Provided by Mr Tech Guy - Resolute Audio Visual Limited © 2026

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.1
(Release build 20251126)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 8.5.12 Page Time: 0.071s Queries: 39 (0.050s) Memory: 0.8910 MB (Peak: 2.2174 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2026-11-04 02:39:04 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS