Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion HiFi & HT Chat CD-R ripping

If you do hear a difference with everything done right as Ronnie suggested then you have a bug in the encoder or decoder (highly doubtful).

Also keep in mind all Rippers themselves RIP as PCM than transcode to what ever format you request. Different Rippers may use different encoders and possibly different implementations of encoders.

You don't need subjective hearing tests to prove these lossless encoders work. You can Rip to any format, burn it and rip it again and again and again and you will get the same 1's and 0's. If done properly. There are some complex tricks to get the exact number of lead in samples so that you can diff them byte for byte.

There was an article I read once on how to Rip and Burn a CD, such that the burned CD would pass the accurate Rip checksum. It was not trivial. But that doesn't matter the lossless encoders have been tested to death and if there was a problem with any of them you'd know it.

One way to verify WAV is performing the same is to test with something like a DTS Rip (samples are in the wiki).

The best way to FULLY test your whole work flow it to use a DTS CD (or burn a DTS CD with the samples in wiki must be 16/44 DTS).

Then use the same work flow you would use to Rip that CD as a WAV or a AIFF or Apple Lossless or FLAC.

If they all play then your work flow, encoders and decoders are all work fine and it should sound identical.

Keep in mind these FILE formats. EVERYTHING gets converted to PCM before it's played. Computers don't care what the format is and it's very simple to proove decoding WAV vs Apple Lossless vs FLAC will decode to the same PCM. If trivial lossless compression didn't work 100% we'd be in big trouble in many areas of computer science.

Again, as long as care is taken at the Ripping Stage to ensure that a Bit Perfect Copy of the CD is created and then that the Lossless file is played back on a "non-compromised" replay device, then there will be no differences

If one is talking about playing back the Lossless files on an acknowledged compromised device like the Airport Express..........or else comparing playing a WAV file on one device and the Lossless file on another, then there may well be differences

back in 2005 and 2006, I ripped about 500 CD's to WAV using EAC.......I've then used different "Players" to convert those WAV's to ALAC, FLAC, WMA Lossless amongst others..........I've then compared those to the original WAV USING THE SAME OUTPUT DEVICES (SB, SB Transporter, Sonos, Computer itself).........no differences........I've repeated this with a few other players over the years, including the SB Touch and a trial Sooloos System.........again, No Differences

Likewise, I've recreated the WAV file from the various Lossless files and ended out with a Mathematically IDENTICAL WAV file compared to the original source WAV file

Are there Audible differences between the various Player Outputs??? (I.e. SB, Sonos, Sooloos etc.,).........Yes, there most certainly are........most likely IMHO due to their Output Jitter levels, as well as their ability to Upsample (again to reduce jitter)

Are there differences between these Players and e.g. Meridian CD Players........in SOME Cases, Yes, there are IMHO

However, if the SAME Player is used to Output a WAV file compared to a Lossless file.......then there is Zero Difference

WinZIP Versions of Word Documents contain No Differences to their original Non-Zip'ed versions..........likewise for Lossless Music files compared to the WAV Originals

Using compromised playback devices like the Airport Express or even the Computer itself can lead to false impressions being created

As we know, Sooloos creates FLAC Lossless files from the original CD's..........suffice it to say that Meridian (and others) would not have have arrived at this point if they thought that Lossless Versions of the original WAV's were compromised in any way

So regardless of file format, the idea around at ComputerAudiophile.com that what the computer is doing at the time (other activity) and where it is getting the data (disc or memory) can affect output jitter audibly, is groundless?

Without getting into that particular debate, "IF" the Computer's Output was affected by "other activity", then it would have the same impact on whether the computer was replaying a WAV file or a Lossless file

Likewise, we are also talking about non-PC Players here, like SB, Touch, Transporter, Sonos etc.........these Devices are dedicated to Receiving the Lossless File, Decoding it and Playing it......they are not doing anything else at that time

IMHO, if a User is using a computer for Music Replay, then it should be dedicated to that purpose, with all "other" activity being minimized or eliminated..........likewise, DIsc Activity should be minimized during Replay (which is what Memory Play does on the Pure Music Player)

Correct. Jitter does not apply to FILES.
Because files are never transmitted over SPDIF.
Files are transmitted over packet based networks.

That's why the ID40 is special. It changes that link to 861 from SPDIF to ethernet and puts a decoder in the 861. Keeping it jitterless format until all inside the well controlled 861.

Computers doing other things has nothing to do with it. The jitter from a sound card is a function of the sound cards clocking and is completely independent. You can think of a computer as having a SqueezeBox inside. All the same rules apply. Its a function of the quality of the soundcard internal or external.