Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Still slightly underwhelmed by the treble

Both the bass and the in-room presence I get from my 18-bit DSP5ks is great. But I miss the top end sparkle of my previous set-up (Monitor Audio Studio 20SEs + M502 + M557 + Kimber 8TC). I suspect the problem is partly the M sound (musical versus analytical) and possibly the tweeter in the speakers themselves.

I don't plan on leaving the M fold - I'm having too much fun with the positive aspects. But I wondered if there are other speakers with better tweeters or where people would characterise reproduction of the upper registers as crisper?

No need to recommend 96/24 DSP6Ks - I think I'm about 4th in line if any of those turn up in the UK. But what about DSP5200s? Could anyone who has heard both compare and contrast this aspect?

TIA,
Duncan

I have to say, the treble is the only negative comment I have on the F80. It is just not all I wanted. I like the music, and the bass, but the treble comes up a little short.

You sound like you need a little eq to brighten things up.



A Behringer DEQ2496 would work and in the digital domain, it would also give you parametric controls for room correction.

One for sale for �125 (no connection)

Plenty of info on the web.

Steve.

This is what I meant when I said the M sound was 'warm and fluffy' in a post a few weeks back.
Compared to many speakers they do sound extremely smooth to the point where detail could be missing, however, stick that lively speaker back on and you will hear nothing is missing from the M and more times than not detail is being overpowered by the livelier speaker.


24/96 5000 have a smoother midrange and overall smoother sound but do have slightly more top end sparkle.

The 5200's are just more open in general, and firmware 1.30 on the 5200s has changed the sound to be more open again, a little less mid range flab is the best way of describing it, all the bottom end is still there but the mid is leaner and thus makes the speaker sound more open. (this is sending the speaker 88k so the speaker is not apodising btw.)


Have you adjusted the tilt on your 5000s?
Remember these are DSPs so think of it as if you are changing the crossover points rather than adding top end, so no different to buying a new speaker that the manufacturer has tweaked rather than artificially adding frequencies.
Think of it as room tuning.
I think many of us can't get our heads round adjusting tone controls because that is something you just didn't do in the analogue world!

And many a system suffers for this reason!

EQ shouldn't be feared, after all, that's what MRC is, so it's approved by HQ!

Steve.

Duncan,

if you really want more treble,
you can adjust the DSP with your MSR.
Read the manual,the tilt function tilts the frequency/hearing band with the center at about 1kHz(no change here).
So you can turn the treble up and at the same time the bass down.
So you get a more or less "bright" sound depending on if you tilt up or down.
If you mean you have then to less bass,you can turn on the bass in the same way via the MSR and your DSP.
All that have no disadvantages as with doing the same thing in analogue,
that the advantages of your DSP-use it.

A good indicitator for to much brightness or wrongly called analytic is just listen to the music longer and doing something else-not drinking ;-))
If the music make you nervous after a while, then your sound is to "bright".

The goal is to produce the natural sound, and that you have only with "unplugged" instruments and "unplugged" voices-all other sounds are just gimmicks and marketing and bad listening habit.

Robert

18-bit D5Ks are definitely less detailed than my (24/96) DSP33s; I've not heard 24/96 D5Ks, but I'm led to believe that they are also more detailed than the 18-bitters. The 18-bitters have that a real toe-tapping factor which is hard to explain.

I agree with gIzze that M DSP's are not 'bright' in presentation. I have listened to many other brands/combinations (won't name to offend) and find that often they (the others) do not suit long listening sessions as well as M. Listener fatigue kicks in my experience after a while.

Now, one might suggest it's because I'm used to the M DSP sound so as with all differences it takes time to adjust.

It's all about what your sonic reference point is. You only have to test 30minutes of your favourite music at 80 and then drop to 50. This is short-term but shows you how much your brain adjusts to sounds.

However, the DSP's don't miss any hi freq detail....it just doesn't jump out at you.

Other system tweaks can help with balance in addition to upgrades and firmware etc. +3dB is a good example.

The 33's and 5000's when crossed over at 80hz sound very, very, very similar. I would guess that someone who doesn't know the speakers inside out would not be able to tell the difference.

Where as swapping between 18 and 24 bit 5k's is immediately obvious. I do think that with adjustment of the controls you can get them to sound a lot more alike than they do on their default settings though.

The 18 bit 5k's are not as smooth in the mid range, or upper bass frequencies is more like it, and this gives them that 'toe tapping' sound I reckon.

Duncan,

There was a thread awhile ago where George Mills tested the tweeters in his extensive collection of DSP5K's. Many of them had a reduced frequency response, presumably due to ageing. So best to check yours first. But how? Dealer? Or renew tweeters, if that is cheaper? Cannot remember exactly how George tested his, but details are in the thread, I think.

Locus

Actually I suspected some were bad but it turns out only the two I thought were bad by ear, actually were bad. But I think it is a good idea to check them out. It's actually very tricky to do and I used REW. New tweeters are also very expensive from your Merdian dealer these days ($400.00-ish EACH).

Assuming the speakers are ok. Give it some time. Your ears will adjust. Then try going back to the treblely speakers and you'll say OMG how could I have ever listened to these things.

Hi all - first post here and wanted to say hi to the M community. I have a pair of 18-bit 5500's connected to a Sonos source (FLAC content). Similiar to DuncanBudd, I ran Monitor Audio mains on my old system... RS6's to be specific.

I am loving the new setup. I am thrilled that gear built 10+ years ago works flawlessly with a transport system that didn't exist back then. Plug them in... and it all just works.

This thread jumped out at me. The first thing I noticed is less "sparkle". There is less high frequency emphasis. Not as bright, if you like. The thought has crossed my mind that the tweeters aren't working - but both speakers behave similiarly, and it's not like the tweeters are off.

Question - when I first turn on the system, I could swear that there is even less high-frequency content. If I listen to the same song after "warming up" the speakers with a few tracks, I feel there is significantly more volume & detail. Is that possible? Do I need to get my ears checked? What could be changing?

I have played around with the tilt and there is a definite impact. In my room, the bass is... significant. Even with the Monitor Audio's I had the same situation, and so I can dial it back a bit using tilt as well.

I have also spent a fair amount of time listening to 24/96 speakers, and they are definitely brighter.

Anyway - loving them... hi all.