Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Interesting Discussion 861v6 v ADA

You need to sample at LEAST 96khz to capture the 48Khz information.
You're not trying to capture the 22Khz "Analog". You are trying to RESAMPLE a SAMPLING of the music.

So are you maintaining Bob thinks apodizing is nonsense too? It requires 96Khz to work !!

I think you are playing games with the numbers.

You have to sample higher to capture what Meridian adds and that your paying $25k for.

If you are throwing out Meridian Room Correction, and throwing out upsampling and apodizing. Why are you installing a $25K processor in the first place.

I'm not a teacher and I don't have the time to go into attempting to teach and to help explain it. But that's not how it works. Someone else can try. I may later if I have time. But I'm wasting way too much time with this. I'm actually completely floored that more folks don't understand why it's really bad. I was telling a coworker at lunch (who rolls his eyes at Meridian upsampling, apodizing etc.). But then I said they resample at 48Khz and in his words "Well now they really F'd it up".

When EvdBerg said he was worried about the QSC I thought it was about using A to D at all. His concern was it's not good A to D. I didn't realize that until later. It's a piece of crap (by Meridian standards).

You'll also see a LOT of folks here believe the directionality argument of freq below 80hz too. In fact I'm impressed how many folks agree on that. This is at least a valid debate. 48Khz resampling is a bad joke.

It's all very consistent with Meridian (Bob's) way of thinking.

Actually that is only one of my concerns, but in the end it all depends on how the SSP, QSC and speakers are all (inter)connected and configured. I hope we get the final details on this soon.

My experience is I can usually locate subwoofers but it could very well be for the reasons Dennis says. I prefer having the full range at the source points. To me this is more natural sounding.

As stated, the SSP is set at 80 hz.[/quote]
Let's summaries what you have said so far:
- The SSP is doing crossover at 80Hz.
- The QSC is doing crossover at 80Hz.
- All 8 channels of the SSP are connected to the QSC.

Questions remaining to get the full picture:
- From what device are you speakers connected?
- What speakers are defined large or small in the SSP.
- What speakers are defined large or small in the QSC. [/quote]

Here ya go:
1. SSP set to 80 hz. IT is performing bass management.
2. All channels go from SSP to QSC. Output of QSC go to the amps.
3. Speakers are set to small all around in the SSP.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I prefer the ADA over the 861 and you guys need me to justify why I like it better because you cannot believe somebody would like another unit over your holy grail. It's like you have to find out how it could be possible. It's like we go out to dinner and you like your fillet and I like my porterhouse and I need to explain how my meal could possiblly taste better than yours TO ME. Actually, bad example, if you weren't drinking the koolaid, you would prefer the ADA too.
Ken

Agree, but I would not hold your breath.

If they only did subs through QSC 48Khz is not a big deal but you lose room correction above 80hz (as you pointed out) and lose (arguably directionality below 80hz) and you better know what you are doing.

If all channels go through QSC you have destroyed your 861v6's added value and then some.

Now if you crossed over at say 30hz (as done by others) or did LFE only (as suggested) and contine to use ssp for room correction for other channels you might have chance.

Another thing here not discussed is shooting for a flat response across all frequecies. I suspect that's that may be involved here. And is discussed in meridians white paper on room correction.

You and I are in complete agreement that you must sample at least at 96kHz to capture high frequency content of 48kHz. Theoretically you only need to sample at 96kHz, but to avoid aliasing distortion at and below 48kHz, you would probably want to sample a little higher and use a gentler than brickwall filter at 48kHz.

Does Bob Stuart believe that such high frequency content is either audible or otherwise significant for the reproduction of music? My recollection is that he does not.

Personally, I find Bob's argument persuasive that sampling at 96/24 is overkill, but given a choice I would rather perform analog to digital conversion of a full-range analog signal at 96kHz or 88.2kHz rather than 48kHz or 44.1kHz. It is what I do when I record, mix and master in Pro Tools.

Is there even high frequency content from music or movies at 48kHz on the analog outputs of an 861 to sample? I sincerely doubt it.

Is their high frequency content from music or movies up to 48kHz in the analog bass signal with the crossover set at 80Hz? I do not believe there is. Therefore, I do not believe sampling of such analog bass signal at 96kHz necessary. I believe that sampling such analog bass signal at 48kHz is more than adequate.

If Ken is performing analog to digital conversion on a full-range analog signal at 48kHz, I think he is doing himself a disservice, regardless of whether the analog signal is coming from his Meridian 861 or his ADA Mach IV.

If Ken is performing analog to digital conversion on in the analog bass signal with the crossover set at 80Hz, then I don't think it matters whether he samples at 96kHz or 48kHz.

My guess is that Ken perceives the ADA as having more "bass slam" because the bass output when he had the Meridian 861 in the system and when he had the ADA Mach 4 in the system were not accurately level matched. But hey, I haven't heard either processor in his system so what do I know.

I think the issue of "bass slam" has absolutely nothing to do with sampling frequency. It's a red herring. Other factors, real or imagined, are at work.

Now, I'm playing with my bluegrass group tonight so I have to go work on my guitar breaks. You work on your fiddle. One of these days we may have a chance to play together. We need a fiddler.

George:

Although I am now strying to stay out of this thread because I am not sufficiently well versed to comment on the technical dicsussion I do feel compelled to correct the above statment in that I bailed on Meridian long before I met mr. Erskine and, as is well documented elsewhere in this forum, because I would not pay the premium that they were demanding...that is, the value proposition was no longer there for me and, also key to me, was direct access in terms of custimer support, also a thing of the past.

I would also respectfully suggest that you read up on Mr. Erskine because he knows of hwat he speaks otherwise he would not be who he is...and, on a personal note, he created a stellar home theatre in my basement!

Respectfully...

Funny Ken. In the end the fillet is the superior cut though! :p

You need to get out more. The porterhouse is more favorable, has more marbling. The Fillet is leaner. Porterhouse is more costly generally.
Ken

Frank,
I am not that technical. As the end user, I listen and know what I like. You (not you personally) want to call it luck, etc, the bottom line is that my HT sounds amazing. This includes having the V4 and V6 previously. The V4 was set up with and without the QSC.
Ken

I think we are in most agreement, including bass slam. But what this all tells me is there too many cooks involved and is not fully understanding what he has been sold and told. My point is there are more holes in this whole mess than swiss cheese. And either system could sound great after all the holes are filled.

The comment (I'm not saying fact) ken said he is running all channels through qsc and then say one ssp has more detail than another makes no sense (to me).

It does make sense he says no difference with 861v4 to v6. But I have not heard that difference in analog system and probably never will.

I can guarantee Bob would say you are losing a lot resampling at 48Khz. You are not sampling the original Analog MIC (which is an infinite sample). You are resampling a sampling. An estamate of an estamate.

Losing a lot when sampling at 48kHz on the analog sub out with the crossover set at 80Hz?