Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Subwoofer choice

The stratosphere of Sub is the following (>$10k):
Krell Master reference Subwoofer
Wilson Audio WatchDog

Under that I would put The ML Descent has the best compromise betwenn Music and HT (but there is probably better HT only subs)

just my 2c

I read about the Audio Phsyic Minos sub. Has anybody had any experience of it? It's meant to be excellent with music, but don't know about HT.

Rob

People seem to get hung up on the distinction between music and HT subs. For a compromised subwoofer, this is valid as increasing low frequency output tends to increase the THD. Staying within the REL range, the ST series are perhaps more music orientated whilst the Q series are more HT orientated. For a sub designed without compromise, the above does not apply. If you refused to compromise and bought an 861, because it was designed to do everything that a HT processor/pre-amp should be able to do, why pair this with a subwoofer that can't.

Just for reference, the king of all subwoofers is probably the ServoDrive ContraBass. I'm fairly confident that this subwoofer will make a whipping boy out of the Master Reference and a mewling puppy out of the Watchdog. It is not a music sub (it's much better than that) and it is not a HT sub (though it can shift a god-like amount of air), it is a highly accurate bass reproduction system.

Mudge, you're getting me well sold on this Contrabass baby!

Actually, they have a bigger, badder sub than that, but it's supposed to be used in multiples, to provide LFE at rock concerts and noise cancellation of Jet engines...
http://www.servodrive.com/contrabass.html for more details.
BTW I know of no other subwoofer that can deliver a clean 114dB at 16Hz. I don't know of many that can deliver 114dB at 16Hz full stop.

[This message has been edited by Mudge (edited 09-22-2003).]

The Contrabass is a great design by Thomas Danley... excellent choice and far better than any commercial sub mentioned here. Any DIY sub can outperform a commercial subwoofer by a huge margin, especially if you can deal with slightly larger enclosures. The drivers available and utilized in DIY designs are better than those used by the best commercial subs. If you want to start your quest for quality bass participate on the DIY speaker list (aka the bass list).

[This message has been edited by Health Nut (edited 09-22-2003).]

HealthNut,
even if you mount several high quality drivers in a huge infinite baffle enclosure, you are still going to be dealing with the non-linear behaviour of the driver. Tom D's design is probably the best yet whilst the closed loop motional feedback designs are a good solution to this problem.
Most commercial designs can easily be bettered by DIY subs using the same design principles, I totally agree.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing on the diy vs. commercial subs, but I would like to know- if its possible to build a diy sub thats better than a commercially available one, how come the sub companies just dont adopt these principles? there cant be some kind of secret formula that only the diyers know- or is there?!

I use a Linn Sizmik and it is the best tone I have heard from for a sub. Don't knock it til you hear it.

I think people should listent to an ML Descent with 3 woofers @ 120 degrees orientation to cancel vibration, (vibration treatment is paramount in Subs)
I've never seen subs configured that way before and check some reviews on www.martinlogan.com

Commercial subwoofers are not only a poor value, they are POOR poorformers in comparison to what DIY projects can obtain. I apologize but I'm too busy to rehash physics and why this is so at the moment. As far as close loop servo.. No, it is not that simple either. Read this thread from page 3 onward and see why DIY projects VASTLY in MAGNITUDES OF ORDER outperform $30,000 Krell MRS subs or any commercial subwoofer. For instance, My Black Hole subs outperform (2) $18,500 = $36,000 Wilson XS subwoofers due to the superior construction, enclosure, and superior physics of the design... IF you know the physics, then you know what you are talking about. Subwoofer physicss and design is fairly easy to learn if you invest the time, know what books to read, and which people to consult/participate with... Just read this thread from page 3 onward for a general idea on the best bass available bar none...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=299681&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

Health Nut, I follwed your link to the interesting discussion on subs, but venturing off into some of the supplied puctures stopped me in my tracks....

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=1549&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500

Clearly, he's not married!

Cheers

George

PS Just gone back to the other photos...that's surely his mate's girlfriend. Or perhaps even Chrism's wife who has grown bored of the Isobariks...size does matter ;-)

[This message has been edited by Mr Meridian (edited 10-02-2003).]