Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Interesting Discussion 861v6 v ADA

It's never to give such conviction of opinion without total knowledge. Spend sometime on AVS forum and learn.
Ken

@ I want my....

NO NO NO....hold your horses.

You don't recall correctly at all. I had an issue with the first unit. It was dealt with immediately by both dealer and HQ. There was no "insisting" or "finally" about anything in my situation. Please don't mis-lead on this one.

This thread has enough nonsense in it without adding to it.

cheers

There is no double bass applied. The speakers are set to small and the x over is set to 80hz for my unit.
Ken

Joel,

Would be good if you could sort out what is going on here. Seems to me obvious that something is wrong somewhere. Gross differences in the bass response of the processors are not to be expected. One or both could be mis-set.

Locus

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I used to play the original "Monkey Island" PC game. One useful feature that could serve forums well was the "W" key.

It had one use only : you pressed it if you wanted to win (badly). It then asked you : "Are you sure you want to win ?" ...

This thread could use a "W" button.
Then whoever wants to win that badly could press it, and see "OK, You Win."

And then it would be over.

Presses *thanks / good post* button...

I did find the QSC-322UA when I was hunting for the unit Ken "calibrates" with. But when I found it, I thought, this can't be it. Who would put an analog in/out Equalizer AFTER the Meridian master volume control (let alone after Merdian's best DACs). Not just for the reason of the loss in A to D and D to A. But you only want to do this on fixed level signals. You can't get fixed level analog signals out of an 861 (ADA might allow this and possibly work better with QSC). He also claims QSC does so much better than MRC so I would assume (and again that may be a wrong assumption) that he wants to use this glorious box for bass management yet he set the ADA to cross over at 80hz (that just doesn't make sense to me, you'd disable all bass management and let QSC do it). Having 2 boxes do bass management is asking for trouble. But perhaps he defeated bass managment in the QSC (even less reason to have it there). The Meridian outputs already have some "equalization" from MRC (that may have been defeated), Trifield (no wonder he didn't like it) and Hybrid Volume (which can behave differently at different volumes).

He really has a QSC system. With a Meridian or ADA "Source" (analog ones at that).

The only fair way to compare them is to take the QSC out.
And if they both sound like crap without QSC I think he has bigger issues.

My gut feeling was something was wrong and I suspect you nailed it.

His 861 probably isn't broken if anyone wants a bargain.

George, could you please expand on and explain the commments about fixed level signals and the ability to get / not get them from the 861...and, to be clear, I am not starting a debate but simply trying to learn as many very well known and very well respected HT designer do this on a regular basis [i.e. Dennis Erskine]...




I think that this can be clarified...I believe that Ken is running one (1) QSC 322az that he uses *ONLY* for his multiple subworrfers so, in this regard, there is *NOT* double bass management...that is the ADA/Meridian sends all signals below 80 Hz to the QSC which is then used *ONLY* for purposes of balancing and calibrating the subwoofers [with the bass managementg for the non-subwoofer speakers being properly handled by the ADA/Meridian]...

The situation that you are suggesting would occur were he to run all channels through his QSC in which case what you say would make sense but, again, given that he has only one (1) QSC this is not possible...




I disagree with this for two reasnons...i) the QSC is only doing bass management on the subwoofers and ii) the QSC, evern were it doing bass management on all speakers, is working on the theory/thinking that the cons additional D/A and A/D conversion is outweighed by the pros of the equalization...and, of course, the caveta here is the first questions that I asked you




I disagree and again for the same reasons...that being that the QSC is only being used to integrate the multiple subwoofers...




I disagree and again for the same reason because some device -- QSC or otherwise -- is need to integrate the multiple subwoofers...

Thanks for clarifying that he only uses them for subs. That is better but still not ideal. If you want to process a signal you want full dynamic range to calibrate with and once you have that you want to apply it to a full range signal. If you apply it to the signal before volume it's much cleaner and much more consistent.

That's why ADA has an equalizer built in (so it can do it at the proper place). That's why Meridian has MRC built in. That's why Meridian sends fixed full range digital to DSP Speakers. Doing correction to a variable volume signal is not a good idea. It will work but it's far from optimal.

Meridian for example may back off on bass at high volumes. The QSC may do similar. Now they are both doing it. That's just an example and may not be true. The point is the output of 861 is a final processed VARIABLE signal. Not a fixed unprocessed signal to be dealt with externally. The 861 is NOT set up to do that.

Like some preamps have an "External Processor Loop". My Transporter has one. That is the right time and place to do processing. Not on the Transporters DAC outputs.

Here is an example thread of someone asking about where EQ goes in a system. Picked out of a hat.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144579

Notice the replies are "I hook to the EQ Loop". The 861 has no EQ loop. Not sure about ADA.

Best way with Meridian would be a Digital EQ Loop. Analog EQ Loop would be next best. And worst would be taking variable analog outputs and wedging EQ in when it's too late (to do it RIGHT). We'll you could do even worse, you could do it after it's amplified too (which is what old subs used to do, speaker in speaker out).

Didn't Ken say in an earlier post he runs "everything" through a QSC? Or am I misunderstanding Joel? I'm confused.

Ken

I think that Ken may be mistaken and we need him to clarify things but just look at the math / numbers...he is running 7 speakers + 5 subs for a total of 12 channels which means that it is impossible to run everything through the QSC unless he has 2 units as a single QSC unit can only handle 8 channels...

I did find the QSC-322UA when I was hunting for the unit Ken "calibrates" with. But when I found it, I thought, this can't be it. Who would put an analog in/out Equalizer AFTER the Meridian master volume control (let alone after Merdian's best DACs). Not just for the reason of the loss in A to D and D to A. But you only want to do this on fixed level signals. You can't get fixed level analog signals out of an 861 (ADA might allow this and possibly work better with QSC). He also claims QSC does so much better than MRC so I would assume (and again that may be a wrong assumption) that he wants to use this glorious box for bass management yet he set the ADA to cross over at 80hz (that just doesn't make sense to me, you'd disable all bass management and let QSC do it). Having 2 boxes do bass management is asking for trouble. But perhaps he defeated bass managment in the QSC (even less reason to have it there). The Meridian outputs already have some "equalization" from MRC (that may have been defeated), Trifield (no wonder he didn't like it) and Hybrid Volume (which can behave differently at different volumes).

He really has a QSC system. With a Meridian or ADA "Source" (analog ones at that).

The only fair way to compare them is to take the QSC out.
And if they both sound like crap without QSC I think he has bigger issues.

My gut feeling was something was wrong and I suspect you nailed it.

His 861 probably isn't broken if anyone wants a bargain. [/quote]

I had the V4 for approximately 6 months before getting the QSC. The Meridian was much better with it and no MRC.

You are losing sight of the original post. It was that I preferred the ADA piece. Stop typing, put your money where your mouth is and go out and get one and see what you think? it is risk free. You get your money back if you don't like it. To just post and post without listening is absolutely. Stop focusing on the 861 and listen to the ADA. That's what the thread is about.

I don't know if you have children, but if they told you they didn't like something and you then asked them if they ever tried it and they said no. What would your reply to them be??
Ken