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Harmless
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Harmless
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Do we think that those little ICs on the PCB of the AC12 has low jitter properties? Looking at the photos from Duncan's site there appears to be no ICs or other active components in the audio chain. The lack of a power supply for the AC12 is also another clue. Looking at the top of the PCB, the silver box on the far right of the photo will almost certainly be an impedance matching transformer and the square black component next to it could be a choke. Untested but... XLR to Phono converter (ie Maplin N27GB or N64FL) then XLR plug or socket to suit wired via CAT5e/6 cable [shielded preferred but probably unnecessary] to RJ45 plug or socket As you realised in a later post, the 'cold' XLR terminal in those XLR-phono adapters from Maplin is just connected to ground, so they are not true balanced-unbalanced converters. However they will work for short distances in this application. In fact, you don't need the XLR connectors at all - just solder the phono plug/socket straight to the RJ45 connector. Much less than �15!  For a properly balanced solution you could expect to spend upwards of �40 in parts. Interesting idea of using the processor Speakerlink out for audio only and using the standard comms connectors. However if you then run an S/M lead to the speakers you are losing the benefits of the balanced nature of Speakerlink, i.e. lower jitter due to better noise rejection. T42 Nobody else seems to have replied to you really. I'm in, what I feel, is probably a very common position. My current Meridian kit is all significantly pre-SL. If I ever wanted (could afford) to upgrade I have to factor in SL conversion halfway through the process or spend twice as much (watch my lips, it ain't gonna happen). A decent priced SL to 5M/5S (or vice-versa) solution would be a great idea. In relation to your specifics
How long before you need active? Agree if there's an RS232 on the back of each DSP it doesn't need repetition for me. My older DSPs are DIN comms, I feel I'm your target audience in a way but I'm Mk1 (albeit 24/96) DSP5k. if every newer DSP has BNC comms you're probably talking sense. See above, but I do see the sense in switchable master/slave. That's a very useful snapshot of a typical user, thanks for the info. According to Wikipedia, 10m is the maximum distance for SPDIF. With an active solution 100m should be achievable.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Paranoid android
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Paranoid android
Joined: Aug 2006
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T42
I cannot see many people needing >10M so if you're think "mass-market" and keeping cost down stick with passive and think about expanding to an active solution to flog to those with money to consider buying the original AC12.
I keep wondering about a 511 eqivalent box, in terms of parts and labour probably not that much more expensive? For most people; buy it once and expand into it? But then dismiss the idea that if the basic 2 channel box is good and sensibly priced we'd just buy 2 or 3 (or 4?)
Richard
Main system; 861v8 ID41, DSP8000SEU fronts with DSP5500 centre and DSP7000 rears (all in lovely silver) 504, HD621 Second system 861v4 ID40 LPS, G98DH, 504, HD621, 2x DSP5200 with DSP5200 centre MD600 tucked away in study. Lots of other Meridian!
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
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t42: i believe we discussed this solution last year. if you could devise converters to go from non SL center and then out to SL left/right speakers w/ zero performance loss then i'm in.
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Harmless
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Harmless
Joined: Nov 2008
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I cannot see many people needing >10M so if you're think "mass-market" and keeping cost down stick with passive and think about expanding to an active solution to flog to those with money to consider buying the original AC12.
I keep wondering about a 511 eqivalent box, in terms of parts and labour probably not that much more expensive? For most people; buy it once and expand into it? But then dismiss the idea that if the basic 2 channel box is good and sensibly priced we'd just buy 2 or 3 (or 4?)
Richard I agree, 10m should be adequate for most situations. I may consider designing a second solution for longer cable runs, but it really depends on the demand. As for cost, I've no idea yet. It depends on the final solution chosen and the grade of components used. For example a Neutrik RJ45 connector in a rugged shell could easily be an order of magnitude more expensive than a simple pcb mount connector. Although cases with a number of pre-cut Neutrik D-series holes can be bought off the shelf, whereas a bespoke case may need to be specified and manufactured if using a number of connectors with different dimensions. I come from a pro-audio background, so I would typically use slightly more 'industrial' style connectors (e.g the Neutrik D-series) than one might typically find in consumer audio. The sort than even bass players can't break...  My intention was to develop a product capable of supporting 2-channels of audio only, as people are likely to have a mixture of SL and non-SL speakers at any given time. They can therefore buy the required number of adapters for their setup. A significant proportion of the cost will be connectors, transformers (if going for a passive solution) and labour, all of which will increase as audio channels are added. t42: i believe we discussed this solution last year. if you could devise converters to go from non SL center and then out to SL left/right speakers w/ zero performance loss then i'm in. Just to clarify, are you looking for a more cost effective solution than the AC12, or is the AC12 unable to do what you want?
Last edited by t42; 2010-09-22 17:10.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,505 Likes: 78
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,505 Likes: 78 |
t42: I believe we discussed this solution last year. If you could devise converters to go from non-SL center and then out to SL left/right speakers with zero performance loss then I'm in. And we discussed this last year..........over many many posts. I told you that this is not possible because SpeakerLink has only 2 channels and, in this case, these two channels are for the Center and Sub. There is no other audio on this cable to split out to the Front / Left speakers. The Front / Left speakers must be fed from the Front Left/Right output from the processor. SPDIF ....... = 2 channel SpeakerLink = 2 channel MMHR ...... = 8 channel (only available HD621 to 861v6) Regards, Carl
861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2. [In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
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So what is the SL solution such that I can use LR DSP8k.2 (SLs) and 5200HC (non-SLs) via G68?
I want to run flat CAT6 for my setup.
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Joined: May 2008
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,505 Likes: 78 |
Is your G68 a SL or Non-SL version?
861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2. [In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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Joined: May 2008
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,505 Likes: 78 |
Reading your previous posts again, I shall assume:
G68 (coax output) 8000.2 (SpeakerLink and coax inputs) 5200HC (only coax inputs)
Without converters (and running coax) G68 ----SPDIF+COMMS----> 8000.2 G68 ----SPDIF+COMMS----> 5200HC
With converters (so you can run CAT5) G68 --SPDIF+COMMS--> AC11 --CAT5--> 8000.2 G68 --SPDIF+COMMS--> " "" " --CAT5--> AC12 --> 5200HC
I guess you want to run CAT5 now to future proof your music/HT room. However, I think you would be better running CAT5 AND Coax in one hit. Then use the most suitable cable for the equipment you have connected to it at that time.
It is better in both cost and performance to avoid AC11 & AC12 (or DIY versions) where possible and only use them when you have to convert from one format to another.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Carl
861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2. [In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Harmless
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Harmless
Joined: Nov 2008
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Without going too off-topic... Carl is right - there is no way to transmit Centre, Left and Right (and Sub) channels over a single SpeakerLink connection.
If you really wanted to run just one Cat6 cable from the G68 to the 5200HC and you didn't need the RS232 portion of SpeakerLink, you could use the RS232 twisted pair to transmit the second pair of audio channels. A 'mutant' SpeakerLink if you will. HOWEVER, this would require bespoke adapters at either end of the Cat6 cable (as it's no longer true Speakerlink) and would not be very future proof, e.g. if you upgrade to a SL centre you would need a completely different adapter at the speaker end.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 147
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 147 |
Thanks Carl and t42. Next purchase is the 7200hc plus t42's kustom adaptor for the NON-SL g68!
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,307
Senior Shouting Officer
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Senior Shouting Officer
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,307 |
The best option (for me) would be a cable to every speaker from the preamp. That makes sense for my background as Computer Network specialist. Bus = shared, star = dedicated.
The AC-12 are a bit overpriced, so i settled for 2 only for my 4 backs, but i much would like to not use too many meters of those silly old din plug wired cables.
Sold all M equipment
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 170
Hitchhiker
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Hitchhiker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 170 |
The best option (for me) would be a cable to every speaker from the
The AC-12 are a bit overpriced, so i settled for 2 only for my 4 backs, but i much would like to not use too many meters of those silly old din plug wired cables. What are the US, UK and other countries list price for the AC-12's? So what do Hikers think their risk/reward thresholds for 3rd party vs. OEM on an AC-12 solution would have to be ? At what price do you feel it starts to makes sense or is there no price that would have you consider a 3rd party alternative? I'm at the juncture of having to make a decision/purchase to convert my legacy speakers over from my v4 to v6 so I will most likely miss out on any alternative. as others here have said, and I concur having to account for the " extra" cost, complexity & implementation is " a drag" and new additions to my collection of external "crutches" enhancements ( AC12, HD621, 519 )! Sorry about the little rant, just had to slip that in Best, J
861v4 & v6, 800v4, 808.3, pr of 8k's, 5.5k 24/96(x3), HD621, Velo15, Modded OPPO BD83, Pioneer DVL-91combi, Technics SL-1200MK2, Musical Fidelity XLP, Kuro151FD, MIT & Kimber, 519, & Harmony 1K, member since July 2000
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