Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems +3dB "LevelPerfect" Tweak Performance Improvement Poll

Guess I'm thinking about this too literally and need to do some further reading and learning.

Hmmm, I've always understood commercials to be louder intentionally for marketing reasons.

Dan

They don't sound any louder on my multichannel setup but as soon as you change to two channel or as in the case with your TV that is only stereo there is a big difference. Some commercials are louder as you say but not by a lot. I don't notice much variation on DirecTV in my theater but using my TV its much more noticeable unless I have the auto loudness feature turned on.

I was thinking about the -3db issue depending on how many speakers you are setup for but it really should be taken care of in the processing at 48 bit before it is converted to 24 bit. Although do they process direct PCM streams from the player? Dolby digital and DTS they do but multichannel PCM...?

I am just throwing ideas out there to figure out why the -3db. George probably has it figured out. It would be nice if Meridian would chime in and put this to bed.

Ron, you are correct combining two FULL SCALE channels of the same frequency will increase by 3dB. I just measured it on the G68 Digitally.

If you look carefully how Meridian Routes Bass to a large speaker they never combine bass from more than two channels into a Large Speaker.

So in addition to the Center EQ, Center Boost and in Some situations the LFE can cause you to clip with the +3dB tweak.

Basically if you run LFE Only you won't ever clip with +3dB on Discrete Sources.
With 2 Channel as long as you don't use Center EQ you can run any comboination of speakers and it won't ever clip.

48bit Processing has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The Complexity is when Mixing Scales (LFE Scale) with Full Range Channels over SPDIF. If you don't mix LFE with Full Scale Channels there is no need for 3dB Headroom. But even then I don't think it's worth losing that bit of detail for it. It can certainly be handled better as I suggested a while back.

It should add the headroom only to the channel that needs it then boost it (by the amount of headroom) in analog in the DSP Speaker.

That way anything without LFE (2 or 5 Channel Music) does not need to be compromised at all.

It is clear to me now that Meridian is well aware of this 3dB Headroom they put in, but it's not always needed and I think it's kind of costly when it doesn't have to be so.

If I recall (it's been a long time) Lexicons volume as you changed DSP presets changed quite a bit. My guess is that they selectively put headroom in only when they needed it.

I tried it and so far I am very pleasantly surprised with the results. The downside is I have lost some of the SPL calibration across the front- my front 3 were -2.5 front left, -2.5 center and -1.5 right. Interestingly enough I really dont hear the right as being much louder- if at all. The change was noticeable right from the start. I didn't have enough time to change one parameter and then listen- so I ran Georges well laid out program and also I changed the Trifield and music presets so they are flat on the center ch eq as opposed to using eq1. I should have gone to the flat setting years ago. The result though, is quite noticable- the sound is fuller, smoother, there is more weight to the sound and it just sounds more refined and spacious. I listened to Abbey Road, some Joshua Redman, some Rush, even some Led Zeppelin- they all sound better- if you would have told me I was listening to v6, Id have believed you. On movies, I tried avatar and MI3 and both sound fantastic. On movies the difference is not quite as noticeable but it is there. To borrow an overused phrase, "the veil has been lifted" is the best way to describe it. I think for something to truly be considered "huge" then it has to be like when going from one speaker to seven, but in the context of our hobby and hearing more details and getting clearer and fuller sound, then I would say this qualifies for the "large" improvement category and I voted as such. This is great!! Thanks George- and also to the other HHers for all your thoughtful discussion.

So what happens to the LFE channel if your using no sub? Is it just thrown away? I know with DD and DTS the decoder will mix them into the main left and right at a lower level of course but with TrueHD and DTSHD. What happens to it?

Actually I do notice that TrueHD is 5db lower than DTSHD. Not sure why they record it lower. Its 5db lower in all channels!

I've had the last 4-5 hrs to myself listening to music in both direct and Trifield with the +3dB adjustment. I've gone through a couple of full albums and then started mixing it up through as varied a collection of styles as you can get

e.g.Krall, NIN, Porcupine Tree, Knopfler, Finn Bros, Kravitz, Ruben Gonzalez, etc etc

All playing through the new SB Touch into G68->8k's. Mixture of 44k/96k and 16-24bit files.

In a nutshell:- I am chuffed to bits (translated = very very pleased)

I have not yet found a downside to the 3dB tweak. All music that I played seems to have more authority, more articulation, more detail. Bass has more punch; treble is cleaner, crisper and yields more texture to the ring of high-hats and cymbals; voices are sweet and detailed.

This is really not a subtle tweak. I liken it to the "wow-factor" that we pretty much all had at HH2 in the foyer. I am then struck by the notion that the 808.2 was playing directly into those 8k's presumably at full 0dB.

For those with DSP and a processor, I can only suggest you have a try with this as it's possibly the biggest impact upgrade you will have for a long time.

You might even say this one has infinite bang for the buck

I hope/trust that M will comment on this in due course. It is surely going to be #1 on any Q&A list for while.

cheers

Of course I agree and I think going from eq 1 to flat in the center has helped make Trifield sound even better but the extra image is a result of the +3db. Great stuff!

Most likely the result of dialog normalization.

Well, I finally got around to trying this as I had a lazy afternoon. No major traumas as all my three fronts are at the same level anyway so it was a simple adjustment. I definitely felt there was more presence on the bass - I listed to a piece of organ music I know very well, mainly because I know what bass should be where. There was a level of sustained bass points that were a little wobblier before - volume changes may be part of it but I did feel there was more clarity.

And, of course, it didn't cost anything.

It seems to me that Meridian should have set the original software to be like this from the beginning and if the user selects an eq for Trifield or some kind of center boost then there should be a warning that the only way to achieve this is to reduce resolution. In my system at least, it is far preferable to go with the full resolution than with the loss of resolution and eq1.

Jerry, this is what is puzzling me. With all of the listening tests that Meridian claims it performs, how could it not detect a loss in audio quality caused by 3dB of digital attenuation that most people who've tried it can hear?

I am very confused and this is, potentially, very embarrassing for Meridian.

And, yes, of course any necessary headroom should be dealt with automatically on a per-preset basis.

I hope that any new software does not disable the ability to set speakers at +3dB.