Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Worthwhile trading-in 808.2 for 808.3?

If the 808.3 is released this month then I will say well done Meridian for getting to market when you said you would.

Bill I hope your 808.3 is in the first batch released this month.

My 808.2 to 808.3 trade-in considerations will continue and will include my and other's listening experience. That will include the degree that Sooloos sound via 808.3 is improved. The 808.3 will I expect make it all sound better to some as yet unknown extent.

Hi,

To shed some light on this minimum Sooloos system business:

The Sooloos system must have a 'system core' running for it to function.

This Core can run in:
Ensemble
A Source One
The Control:10

So you MUST have at least one of these in the system.
This would make the minimum Sooloos system an Ensemble, which could be controlled by an iPhone, Control:PC or we have a working AMX module, so MIO R4, Modero touchpanel etc.
CDs can be ripped into this via Control:PC, this is a bit steady but works fine.
Adding the ID40 would give the best sounding way to play back the stored music.

What you can't have is just a TwinStore, as this can't run a System Core.
The ID40 card cannot run a System Core, so TwinStore and ID40 wouldn't work either.
(Although TwinStore, Control:10, and ID40 would be fine)

The ID40 I am informed by several people in Meridian will offer the best sound quality from the Sooloos, and has been developed as such. It is not just another way to connect to Sooloos.
So if you currently have a Control:10, TwinStore system the ID40 card will improve the sound quality no matter how you have the Control:10 connected, and I am being told that this is a marked improvement.

You'll end up buying a Control:10 though, that's what the system is really all about!

Rick

Rick
As you can tell, we're a reasonably technical bunch around here and therefore, some of us would like a more technical explanation of the above comments about the ID40 card

For example, if Meridian just said that "the 861v6 sounds better", then we would like a more detailed explanation, without necessarily delving into Proprietary Information.

However, when Meridian do release (eventually) tidbits about a "New Clocking Structure"; the inclusion of Apodizing; new Cards and Backplane resulting in more MIPS in the 861v6, the whole thing becomes easier to understand how "audio improvements" have been achieved.

Giving us more technical information helps us with our buying decisions

For one, I would like a more detailed background about why a Sooloos core connected to an ID40 card in an 861v6 or 808.3i would sound better than a Sooloos Control:10 connected via Speakerlink RJ45. My question specifically related to when the Sooloos (Control:10) is located in the same rack or room as the 861v6 or 808.3i. It is much easier to understand the benefits of the ID40 when the 861v6 or 808.3i is in a different room to the Sooloos Control:10 and therefore needs to be connected via a Router and is subject to normal Network Traffic

Can you shed any light on the Technical Improvements of the ID40 over and above a local Speakerlink connection??

Neither the Source nor Ensemble have Speakerlink Outputs. Is this where Meridian are suggesting that there are benefits i.e. ID40 connection better than a Digital SPDIF one??

Thanks for the info Rick.

I think this will change when Meridian ports the Sooloos app to the iPad.

Not so sure about that!!! At least not without some Major developments over the current Sooloos iPhone app

I've tried the current Sooloos iPhone / Touch App and aside from it being very slow, it is all text based. In that respect, it is very much like the Control:PC application versus the native Control:10 application.

They both allow you to select Artists or Albums but very little of the Control:10 functionality (Focus or Swim etc.) are carried over

IMHO running just the Control:PC application on a PC or iPhone holds very little attraction and sucks the life out of the whole Control:10 Interface that most here think about when they think about the Sooloos

Does this mean to suggest that the ID40 is performing some function whether or not it is connected to the network on which the Sooloos system resides? For example, if a Control:10 speakerlink connection is made to a speakerlink input on the 808.3 or 861 v6, does the ID40 become active in processing what amounts to a balanced digital audio signal? It seemed to me that the ID40 serves as Sooloos source and renders the audio for the 808.3 or the 861v6 and that there is "special sauce" in the rendering.

Ronnie,
Control:10 vs ID40
At some point in the Sooloos chain the files stored on the TwinStore have to be converted to a PCM audio stream to be fed into the speaker DACS or 808
Although the Control:10 can do this very well, the ID40 card can do it much better with improved clocks etc, and once this conversion has been done it is fed immediately onto the backplahe of the 808, rather than being run down speakerlink cable from the Control:10.
It really doesn't matter if the Control:10 is next to your speakers/808 or in the next room, it still connects to the TwinStore via network and still has to do this file storage to PCM conversion. and the ID40 can do it much better.
I agree that if you could 'upgrade' the Control:10 with the ID40 card then this may well offer most of the improvement, but its not its location its the fact that it is much better at doing the conversion.

Control:10 vs iPad.
No contest!
All that a third party control device can access from the Sooloos is the same as the Sooloos 'explore' feature (without the search bit)
I have extensive practical knowledge of this as we have developed an AMX module to integrate AMX and Sooloos, allowing AMX touchpanels to acceess the Sooloos music. Simple swim functionality is availble, like swim in a decade.
The limitation is not with the third party device, so an iPad will be no better than an iPhone in its searching ability. The Sooloos would have to be dramatically changed to allow the full Control:10 experience on a third party device and I don't think it ever will.
Incendentally our AMX module works very quickly, as does Conrtrol PC, so I think the problems you had with iPhone sluggishness was due to data being throttled elsewhere in your network or wi-fi maybe?

If you don't buy a Control:10 with your Sooloos system at first you'll end up buying one eventually!

Again, thanks for the very useful info Rick.

Or never. I'm serious on this point. For some, the Control:10 will be the centerpiece of a room, but it is simply too darn big for me. If third-party tablets aren't good enough with Sooloos, then something more proprietry needs to be developed.

Note that I could afford a Sooloos system if I really wanted one. However, even if it's not the ultimate in sound quality, my multi-SqueezeBox system with its flexibility, numerous plug-ins, and excellent control with iPeng, make it my system of choice at a fraction of the cost. At the moment, I'm still not convinced with the Sooloos proposition, though recent changes have definitely been a move in the right direction. I accept 100% that I am not the typical Sooloos purchaser though.

Rick,

Welcome to the forum, you have provided more information on M's Sooloos system in two post than many others including M have provided in months.

I thank you.

I`m a prospective Sooloos purchaser who is interested but still not convinced with the system architecture of the current Sooloos products.
Like VK, I also want a Sooloos Control:10 style front end running on an iPad or iPad like device. I also want support for multi-channel audio.

I would be most grateful if you would forward this as feedback to M.
If you wish to contact me directly my email address is in my forum profile.

The 64,000 Dollar question....

Does an 861v6&ID40 + Sooloos sound as good as an 808.3 [playing from its internal drive] when feeding a pair of 8000.2 DSPs?

Regards,
Carl

Oh, I forgot to say that, unless you a prepared to fork out a *lot* of money on a unit for each room, the Control:10 falls down in multi-room environments. This is where the portable tablet comes into its own.

Rick,

Thanks you for the clarification. I am still trying to understand the Sooloos system.

A question: if the Control:10 is freed of the processing that is now done by the ID40 & 861, presumably it could then act as a wireless control if Meridian so desired? But perhaps Meridian need to answer this question.

Locus.

Carl,

Thanks for the welcome, i'll see if I can gleen some more information about the big '861&ID40 vs 808.3&ID40' question!

With response to the Control:10 too big problem.
We have been programming and installing AMX touchpanel systems for many years now. A large part of the design of a touchpanel interface is the trade off between size of the panel and the information it displays on any one screen. Most people's first reaction to touchscreens is that smaller is better, but soon realise that a larger one offers more immediate control (without lots of page flips) and you never loose it down the back of the sofa!
I would love to have a Control:10 type interface on an iPhone but it simply isnt big enough to work efficiently, something I presume apple have also realised hence the release of the iPad!
Even with a sylus rather than fingers you simply wouldn't be able to operate it. I suppose you could split up the Control:10 screen onto several sub-pages on the iPhone, but then this looses its appeal. We already have the ability to emulate our AMX touchpanels onto iPhone and you spend all your time zooming in to touch a button and then zooming back out again. Try photographing a Control:10 screen and then reducing it to iPhone size and you'll appreciate what I mean.

Having said all that there is a solution which we have started investigating;
Sooloos make a product called a Control Bridge.
This is a Control:10 with no screen.
It is designed to be connected to a third party touchscreen such as Crestron or AMX which has a VGA input and touchscreen output.
This allows a single AMX touchpanel to run all your home control systems, and then when you require Sooloos control you flip the AMX to a screen which shows the Control Bridge Output, so you have a Control:10 page within your AMX system.
Now it MAY be able to use this to bring up a Control:10 onto something like an AMX Modero MVP8400 wireless touchpanel. This is an 8.4" wireless touchscreen.
Solving the portable Control:10 requirement. AMX have a smaller MVP5200 5" touchpanel but this might be just too small to operate nicely. We need to play with this some more to see if it offers a practical solution.

Another aspect of the Control:10 which appeals to me is how fast it is. This has been very carefully designed to work very fast even with thousands of CDs stored. I think that interfacing any third party panels would compromise the speed dramatically. The control Bridge overcomes this problem as all you actually 'see' on the AMX touchpanel is the video output, a bit like a VNC onto a powerful computer. You use the Control Bridge to interrogate the Sooloos database and just 'view' the result.

If a Conbtrol 10 in every room is not quite achievable then how about this as a solution:
You have a Control:10 in your Living Room, or Entrance hall, some central location in the home to which everyone in the family has access. I quite like the idea of one in the Entrance hall on a leather podium with a spotlight on it!
You go to this Control:10 when you don't know what you fancy listening to, to have a browse through your albums or to build a Playlist for the party the following Saturday, read an album review or whatever. Once you have selected what you want to listen to from the Control:10 then an iPhone, or ideally an AMX touchpanel or Mio R4 remote in each room would allow access to this playlist, stored focus or whatever you have selected on the Control:10. And an AMX unit could change source and alter the volume as well, even on non-Meridian amplifiers. Although these remotes are text based they do offer more flexibilty than any other system I have seen, and you do get cover art for the CD you are playing. If all you were after was to select a particular CD then this is easily achieved from the iPhone or AMX touchpanel directly without a visit to the Control:10, they do everything that a Control:10 does on 'explore', Rhapsody included.
I think that even if the iPhone had the capability of doing absolutely everything the Control:10 could do, you would still end up walking to the main Control:10 in the entrance hall rather than fiddle about with the multi page flips on your iPhone!

Right guys thats enough ranting from me.. i'm off for a beer!