Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Meridian is known for signal processing. But how about speaker technology?

You're bringing up a very interesting point. One that has bothered me for quite some time now. I don't use DSP speakers and yes, I did hear the DSP8000. I've always liked the concept of Meridians speakers. A cable from the processor to the speakers and that's it. No expensive amps, no cables, no tweaking, no upgrading. Ages ago I started with some crappy speakers from an electronic store. I moved on to something better and ended up building my own speakers for a while. I've never even heard of Meridian back then. At some point building my own speakers was more expensive than simply working and putting the earned money into speakers. That was the point where I was able to afford the expensive toys.

Fast forward to today... over the past decade I've done nothing but upgrades. Projectors, speakers, amps, processors, cables, lots of tweaks. I've always chased after the best I could get and once I got something new it kept me happy for a week and then I started to think about the next upgrade. I've left out some of the upgrades I initially thought I'd do. So I skipped upgrading my Nordost speaker cables to their latest Odin. I've spent alot on cables in the past, but putting down �20k+ for a pair of speaker cables seemed a little extrem, even for an audio-nut like me. I went through alot of speakers and amps as well and have now reached a point where I seem to care more about upgrading than enjoying the HT and music. Last year, Isophon (love their speakers) introduced a new speaker at High-End and I'm loving it... the next potential �50k upgrade (�75k for the whole front). Then what, a �100k speaker next year? This is crazy.

Enjoying the system is something I can't do anymore. I guess I have to thank Meridian for introducing the 861v6. If the v6 is really better than v4, I'll upgrade and at the same time I'm now considering to forget about the analogue route and consider DSP speakers again. That would eliminate the urge to upgrade amps, speakers and cables. I'd be stuck then with DSP and even if I'm not getting the best possible performance considering other equipment, it might put me in a position where I can actually walk into the basement, sit down and watch a movie or even listen to music again, without thinking about the next upgrade. This is a huge step for me, but I hope in the end I can just make this step and never look back to be much happier in the end. Guess I'll have to wait and see.

Stephan,
You are exactly how I was. You keep looking for upgrades because you know. You just KNOW there is something better.

I had several pre/pros. They were all financial losses in the name of the hobby.

Then I bought an 861v2 in September 1999. I still had my amplifiers and cables and nice speakers- a set of Aerial 10Ts. Then in 2003 I made the move to the 8000s and I have not looked back. No more worries about cables, no more worries about well this or that crossover has this and that artifact. I just sit back and enjoy. Ive spent money on upgrading the 861- now at v4.25 and hopefully V6 will be worth it. I have spent exactly $0 upgrading wires, cables, speakers, etc since then. Just downloadable software updates and I once had to send the electronics module back to the mothership because something bad happened- I think it was still under warranty. There are so many things you can do to tweak the sound of this system to get it how you would like. The question of "is it worth it" is purely subjective, but to me it is.

I have had several nice toys in the mean time, they all depreciate, they are all different, but when I think about value, I think the 8000s have delivered. I realize they have increased in price since the time I bought mine- I might be able to actually sell them now for close to what I paid back in 03?! But you would have to pay me more than a set of new ones to get me to sell because Id want to buy a new set of 8000s and to have some walking around money.

The thing is, during this time, I have kept up with reading about the latest and greatest from the other manufacturers- some of it quite good. I have never felt any kind of urge to "upgrade". I simply don't think it would be. I think Meridian knows this- they know they have to keep out in front, their clients are demanding people and we should be. But I think they deliver. (sorry for the over the top fanboy stuff but its my opinion)

Often we get hung up on the equipment. I think many of us here just enjoy technology. I know I do. But. I have to admit that its a nice compliment that just about anyone who is in my theater remarks that they cannot believe the sound. These are not techie people, they just know what sounds good to them. Thats the place the 8000s take me.

Technology is not enough guys
creative talent and great tech is the grail.

Right. Its the wisdom to know how to balance all the ingredients. I am not a great cook, but my wife is. She can hand me all the best ingredients but if I don't know what to do with them, what good am I?

@ MazterUK: I have no idea what you are trying to say. But I stand by what I said and in the chain of things I said it. I have the feeling you mix something not belonging to each other. I have nothing whatsoever against Meridian speakers, I just don't buy them, buy DSP speakers from other brands. No harm done. I have never ever and will not say something against Meridian speakers.

And yes, I beleave in "the" Meridian forum, you can only make such a disussion on facts, anything else will be just more biased or subjective feelings or maybe even gossip (and maybe fogged by room dependencies). As in the end nobody has that inside info on Meridian driver/speaker specs, I do not see that we can either say Meridian uses cheap drivers nor that better driver will improve what they do. When we would have these "facts", we could try to have a real and worthy discussion.

On the case of the 8000, I have no doubt that it sounds pretty good. I don't want facts on the 8000, I do not care for the 8000, I cannot afford it. I simply want facts in any discussion. Here you misunderstood. I did not say I judge the 8000 just by measurements, but yes, in here I would prefer to have a discussion by facts rather then instead of what people "beleave" or think they hear. And yes, I stand by what I said, I would find it "even more" convincing, if Meridian would show full measurements on their homepage (this is true for any speaker company). The 8000 is actually not the point of the debate. To me the 8000 just does not appear to be a non compromised speaker the way I consider one to be, in some ways I see room for improvements, but so what, who cares or why shouldn't I be allowed to say so. And all of this is not about my opinion, this is about the question of the thread creator, if Meridian is a good speaker building company. And so far I have not seen from anybody any proof that this is not the case, at least not on technical level. But again, certain techniques are not exclusive to Meridian, certain techniques are not used by Meridian (stated a few pages back). So superlatives should be kept short, or should be allowed to be doubted, as well as strange criticism, unless we have "facts".

Thanks for all your comments. I have learned a lot from this post. There is so much knowledge in this forum.

Be it my own fault for not being more specific, but I was talking about passive speakers, not DSP speakers. DSP speakers are really systems in a box. My subject line should have read, "Meridian is known for signal processing and DSP speakers. But how about passive speaker technology?"

I understand that Meridian's philosphy is that there is far more to be gained from properly matching electronics, cabinets, and drivers at the factory than connecting single components to each other in the home with the hopes of getting it right. I appreciate that concept and I support it. That is why I own DSP speakers.

But I also own 300 series passive speakers. I would like to see Meridian invest more in this product, even if for only selfish reasons.

Andreas- With all due respect.

Please elaborate:

"Companies of at least equal quality can be found in the pro-world easily, even some that appear to have mastered certain technical aspects that dwarf the achivements of Meridian. However, pls do not ask me to elaborate."

Why state something you will not elaborate upon. What is the point? You ask us not to flame you yet you make a statement which you ask everyone to take at face value with no critical discussion.

Everyone in the world can say, "you know my opinion is x, but do not ask me to elaborate". Lol, Farcical, esp the pre-emptive dont flame me, come on.. we are not children here.

Im sure in any "scientific" community you would need to prove the null hypothesis incorrect. I cannot fathom how you would do that in this scenario.

You say:

"And yes, I beleave in "the" Meridian forum, you can only make such a disussion on facts, anything else will be just more biased or subjective feelings or maybe even gossip (and maybe fogged by room dependencies)"

Yet you ask that we dont interrogate your factless opinion. Can i add a symbol or three please? "???"


We had previously a chap who went banas cos he didnt know what DAC Meridian used on their 808's and now someone who says dont question my judgement. "???"

I think the problem with this thread is that there are few (none?) of us here who have in-depth knowledge of drive units and speaker design, particularly when it comes to the radiation pattern from the speakers and the effect that this has on imaging and other aspects of sonic perception.

......To me the 8000 just does not appear to be a non compromised speaker the way I consider one to be, in some ways I see room for improvements, but so what, who cares or why shouldn't I be allowed to say so...[/quote]
Andreas, i do care and "allow" you to speak ;-))))))))))))))))

Which ways do you see on potential improvements-which main compromises you mean ?

Robert

@ Mazter : you still miss one important point, that by saying so, I did not say that Meridian speakers are not good, I only said there are others that have equal quality, as they use as well active amping and DSP correction. This I said in a certain context to a response, most often when it sounds too superlative, as sometimes superlatives should be put into perspective. PM me anytime, if you want more details.

@ Virus: " think the problem with this thread is that there are few (none?) of us here who have in-depth knowledge of drive units and speaker design, particularly when it comes to the radiation pattern from the speakers and the effect that this has on imaging and other aspects of sonic perception."

There is something that can lead one there, when one looks not only at the consumer market/products. "For some reasons", directivity (aka radiation patterns), on and off axis behavior in a multi way (active) speaker, is "over there" one of the absolute main topics penetrated by alot of companies, hence certain techniques are being used by alot of companies and are indepth advertised. This helps to understand radiation quite good (e.g coaxial speakers, not necessarily coaxial drivers, as well as wave guide technology).

@Robert: nice try ;-) I'm the one who said usualy such discussions as provoked questioning the Meridian quality in the Meridian forum will not lead to anything and now I shoud elaborate on stuff that could be seen as citizism. Dude, no way we start something like that in here. PM me any time and we can have a nice chat. Until then I leave the space for other critizing Meridian quality/drivers without indepth knowledge and those saying Meridian is the best, just because they use DSP technology. I really do prefer to sit in the middle.

Axle Meridian made passive speakers for years, There was the Argent range of speakers that were fantastic which also used kevlar cones, not sure who made the actual drivers but thats no very interesting really, the last of the passive floor standers was the A500's.

A lot of people get carried away with the latest and greatest this and that and tech and all kinds of things. Meridian have always looked at things from the end point of a "system" It's quite hard to explain it all. In the begging their M1 was and still is a amazing speaker and forget how old it is it still does many things more modern speakers can not, but this works both ways. Meridian then went down the chain, in the M1 they had the speaker + amp, they then wanted a pre so you got the 101, then they needed a source, then came the radio's and CD players a bit later etc...

From this basic stuff Meridian also made amplifiers as the world was a analog place, all sources put out analog signals so Meridian made analog systems, all the pre-amps power amps, radio's over the years and they are all fantastic by any standards. A good example is say trying the old Meridian 105 monoblocks vs modern price back in the 1970's vs today Cyrus mono's are what I heard and to be honest the 105's were very clear winners, speakers on the day were some PMC's for anyone interested.

When the DSP stuff started and they went to the 500 series they clearly still had the system approach and in the range you could clearly see "Analog System" and "Digital System" you could build two different ways Analog: 500 + 566 | 504 > 502 > M60's or in the Digital DSP world 500 | 504 > 562 > DSP5000.

And for extra reference Meridian stopped selling passive speakers when they stopped making tradition integrated / pre power amps as they were no longer making analog systems.

What is interesting is the whole DSP vs Analog approach, I used to work as a dealer and access to all the stuff to take home and listen too, I actually bought M60's over the DSP5000's as processing does change and I personally felt at the time that there were better sounding outboard D/A at the time and there is today, so by using the analog M60 I got a great speaker and great amps in one package.

Meridian can't really put in the same context as other manufacs as they in the past made all the same components, then as axle noted also did "system in a box" which is now their main selling point, my point is Meridian can make all the components all the people can they have just chosen to go the DSP only route which I personally think is a shame, even today I would still buy an analog active over DSP as I like the freedom while still knowing I have a great speaker and amp combo also a plus it's in one package.

Products come and go, tech changes, sometimes they stop making stuff because not enough people buy them, sometimes they stop making gear because they can't get the parts anymore, but at the end of it the kit sounds great.

Just wanted to add about parts in particular, Meridian choose parts based on what they are building, not what the press and tech world say people should use. For many years Meridian used an old philips decoder chip in the 500 series CD gear even many years after philips stopped making it, Bob said in one interview the reason was because I offered lower noise in their implementation. At the time more modern chips were better at some things etc, could be programmed etc, but for his purpose the old one was great so thats what he used.

Many companied do it, Micromega always did a similar thing, crack open their gear and you find latest and greatest input receivers, driver IC's, top quality everything, flip the board and you will be expecting to find cutting edge Dacs but no you find 10 year old dacs originally made for something else, probably a boom box

You could give ten designers the same box of parts, but you would get back 10 different sound pieces of kit. Tech, parts change it's how their used which is interesting.

Same applies to drive unit, they use what they think works best. I have rewired my M60's but to be honest I would never touch the drivers, they sound fantastic as they are, the top end on these is sweet and smooth and I've heard many speakers that have been retrofitted with other / higher quality drivers and the end result is normally out of balance in some way. The tweeters in M gear are great, built well do the job nicely, I've always found rewiring speakers gets the last drop of performance out of them, same with M stuff. Meridian stuff also uses good wire straight from the factory a lot better than many speaker companies I've seen.