Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Stereophile Review of Meridian 808.2 / 808i.2

Stereophile April 2009 features the review on the front cover - “Meridian Re-Invents CD Playback”. The review concludes with John Atkinson writing that "I can say that the Meridian 808i.2 is the finest-sounding CD player I have yet heard".

He adds that he did not think the apodizing filter alone was responsible for such good sound - it's "sonic excellence".

Also he compared the 808i.2 playing standard CD with genuine high resolution recordings played on an Ayre. He only just preferred the high resolution version of the music.

Maybe that was why in the same Stereophile for Recommended Products (SACD, DVD-A, CD Players & Transports) the Ayre C-5xe (and others) is in the A+ section and the 808.2/808i.2 with others - including The Sooloos Music Server - in the A section. It goes down to a D section.

Well done M! You may frustrate us and make us impatient but we will be rewarded.

Sure. Read the rules.

Kal

There is clearly a revolution going on in the digital world right now, as designers figure out how to use the power of field-programmable DSP to overcome the limitations previously associated with CD sound. I just got a Berkeley Audio Design AlphaDAC, and swapped it into my system in place of my 861 (4.25 with 24/192 balanced output cards). The degree of improvement from the AlphaDAC, fed with ripped CDs from my music server, was shocking. Wholesale improvements in detail, low-level resolution, soundstaging, imaging, and treble naturalness. Some familiar recordings were so much more vivid and detailed they sounded like different recordings - kind of like the experience I used to get when first playing back a remastered 180 gram LP of a favorite record.

The arrival of the AlphaDAC finalized a pending decision for me - after 15 years of riding the Meridian surround bandwagon, I'm back to a 2-channel system. Despite the best efforts of people like Kal, there just aren't enough surround recordings with enough improvement over stereo to justify building a full-on surround system, as opposed to optimizing for 2-channel, which is 95% of my music. I don't mind telling you, putting the 861 back in it's box was actually a bit emotional, and I'm not selling it - but for the moment, I'm not listening to it, either.

On the 808.2i, I'm sure it's everything JA says it is. If you're looking primarily for a 2-channel digital preamp/converter though, I'd suggest waiting until Bob Harley compares the 808.2i with the AlphaDAC, to see if the extra coin is really worth it ...

Scottb ... I too found that my hard core two channel non 861v4 DAC sounded markedly better. It wasn't close. Perhaps the 808.2 closes that gap. I hope so.

An "interim" solution that I discovered on the Linkwitz site is to use the 861 only for processing four surround channels, leaving the stereo L/R chain entirely out of the 861 path. (You do this by sending an analog output from your analog preamp to the analog inputs of the 861, making sure that the 861 does not use a center channel for music modes.)

Doing this gives you all the "purity" of two channel, with a bit of the added involvement of multichannel. There's another active thread about diving into Bluray where TassieDevil uses this approach.

If I wasn't also using the 861 for movies, then I'd sell it and use a much cheaper receiver for the surrounds.

The AlphaDAC is getting rave reviews all over. But who is Bob Harley and is he performing a shootout between a 808.2i and an AlphaDAC?

Robert Harley is the editor and one of the chief reviewers of The Absolute Sound. He's recently reviewed the Spectral SDR-4000 CD player, and the AlphaDAC, and raved about both, finding the $17K Spectral perhaps very slightly better on CD playback. (If you read the TAS review of the Spectral, there are technical notes which strongly suggest the Spectral uses some kind of minimum phase filter, like the 808.2 - and the AlphaDAC likely does as well).

RH says (on the AVGuide.com forum, the forum for TAS) that TAS is getting an 808.2 or 2i for Sue Kraft (who raved over the original 808) to review, and he's planning to listen to that unit after she's done. I'd say, based on hearing (and buying) equipment that he's reviewed recently (AlphaDAC, Magico V3) that Robert's ears are very reliable.

Scott I agree with your positive comments about Robert Harley. He has a great technical and practical background and is now a very experienced and well respected reviewer of AV products. I eagerly await The Absolute Sound review of the 808.2. I personally rely mostly on Stereophile and The Absolute Sound reviews.

I will now add to my comments about the Stereophile review at the start of this thread.

The Stereophile comparison of the 808.2 with the Ayre Ayre C-5xe was not with the Ayre's new filter that is now available as a retrofit. That would then make a very interesting comparison with the 808.2 while we wait for Robert H's comparison of the 808.2, Spectral SDR-4000 CD and AlphaDAC.

The April Stereophile Recommended Products not only includes in the A class the 808.2 and Sooloos Music Server but also in the A class Meridian's 861 in the Signal Processor section and the F80 as the only recommendation in the Complete Audio System section. That "old" 861 processor is still so highly rated.

Whatever criticism we make of Meridian products we need to note how highly they are regarded.

Relying on somebody else's ears and Room (never mind other downstream components and speakers) would be quite dangerous IMHO

Using Trusted Reviewers as a POINTER for which Components to Audition (preferably at home in your own System) is a better way to go.

Too many variables and personal preferences in play

Ronnie, I first became interested in Meridian products because of the nature of their products, especially DSP and therefore also the Meridian Room Correction. My interest was raised by the favourable reviews, including The Absolute Sound review of the 808.1 and so many of M's gear over the years being in Stereophile's recommended list. Now that's a great start.

Then I heard some of the gear - that's more difficult than it sounds because it was actually hard to audition in Australia but it is much better now. Then I was convinced and purchased without a home audition. Room problems to some extent at least I knew could be helped by MRC.

Also for someone as experienced as JA who did the Stereophile review of the 808.2 I definitely do take note of them as a highly trusted reviewer. He knows his room and his downstream gear and I believe also his room, including because he does a lot of measurements for other Stereophile reviewers. Also he knows so well the CDs he uses for comparison and his review is based upon listening over a considerable period.

There are reviewers I would not rely on much, if at all.

How many purchase gear not favourably reviewed by at least someone?

I would be interested also in others comments about their method of selection of AV gear.

Scottb,
whats your plan on the 861 now?
You want to sell it?

I'm not selling the 861, at least not now. I've been a Meridian owner since '94, having owned, through the years, the 500, 562, 565, 568, 598, G68, G98, DSP5000, DSP5000C, A500, DSP7000, DSP5500C, and now finally the 861. No product has given me the pride of ownership that I got from the 861. I expect it to be useful to me again in the future, and I expect Meridian will apply their latest knowledge of digital audio from the 808.2 to improve the 861 once again.

To bring the thread back to the original point I was trying to make, the point is not to denigrate the 861 in any way, merely to point out how rapidly digital audio seems to be progressing over the last couple of years. The 861 was considered pretty much state of the art, for any number of channels, just 6 or 7 years ago. JA's review of the 808.2i suggests that Meridian is not resting on their laurels, and is continuing to push the state of the art.

Those of you who have the Stereophile, the measurements section of the 808.2 review is very relevant to the discussion on apodising filters we were having on the HD621/apodising thread. The first two graphs show the impulse response of a typical linear phase filter, with pre and post-ringing, and the impulse response of the 808.2, with no pre-ringing, but even more post-ringing. The impulse response of the 808.2 looks like the 6th graph in this Ayre white paper, which I've referenced often:

http://www.ayre.com/PDF/Ayre_MP_White_Paper.pdf

In that paper, Ayre goes on to say that they found a filter with quite different impulse response (8th graph in the paper) sounds even better. Basically, it trades off some leakage of ultrasonic noise for less post-ringing. So the comparison of those two players by JA should indeed be interesting.

And the kicker in all of this is that, more and more, these players and DACs are upgradeable to new firmware in the field, as Meridian has always been. So as designers learn more from each other, we're increasingly going to see sonic improvements made as simply as downloading new firmware.