Hi I have a 596 going into a 551 and biamped with a 556 running Kef reference 1 speakers. I am happy with the sound but feel the bass could do with a bit more attack. What is the weak link in my system? Should I keep with a passive system or replace the 551 & 556 with dsp5000? And please don`t recommend the 800 since there is no way I can afford it!
i seriously doubt an 800 would make a huge difference in your system.
i'd also question whether a pair of 5000s would satisfy your "bass desires".
i use a pair of 5Ks for my rears. they don't suck by any stretch, but they ain't bass machines. i recently upgraded my 5000C to a 5500HC, and that was a wholly unsubtle exercise. i mean, serious bass upgrade.
if you want the bass for LFE/movies go get a decent sub. it'll be relatively cheap and it'll make your tootsie roll when "AH-NULD" kicks bad-guy butt.
if you want the bass for music, you should do some serious auditioning of the 5Ks before you assume they'll be all you need bass-wise.
i don't know jack about KEF, but a quick poke on the Net suggests you're comparing two very different speakers.
I have a 568/596 running a pair of Martin-Logan SL3's for my main speakers, electrostatics (even hybryds) are not know for their bass output. For movies I have been using a Paragigm Servo-15 but because of intergration issues I had not been relying on the sub for music. Recently I purchased a digital (48k/24) Parametric Equalizer for <$150.00 (US), I was unsure about this unit so I talked the shop owner (music equipment store) into letting me return it within 14 days if it didn't work out. I have not return the EQ, whatever sound degradation it is introducing is more than made up for in the smoothness of the bass. Before installing the EQ (in line with the sub only)I used an audio function generator (set for sinewave) to plot the in-room response of the sub, from the deepest null to the highest peak was 27dB! It was no small wonder why I could not get the sub to sound good for music and it sounded boomy for movies. I am not quite done tinkering with the EQ yet, but I can say this, I am now setting my mains to small and crossing over at 65Hz. I am very pleased with how the sub is now intergrated into the system. As a bonus, since the response is now flatter, the sub can now be turned up for movies without sounding boomy or one note-ish. This added sub output really gives the movies more impact. If you are happy with the sound of your KEF's (excluding lower bass) I would think about a sub, having the couch shake while watching a movie is truly a wonderful thing.
How is your bi-amping arranged? Does the 556 handle bass, or the 551? If the 556 isn't handling the bass, I'd suggest you try that. I did think about getting a pair of Kef Reference speakers, and reviews I read suggested that the bass was well controlled, but not very extended given the size of the box. I also read that they're not the easiest speaker to drive, which can lead to flabby bass. You could try one of Meridian's more muscular power amps, whch might be better able to control the Kefs.
(I upgraded from an Audiolab 8000S to a 556, and found it improved no end the bass which my Ruark Talismans delivered.)
The 556 handles the bass. I was wondering whether to get a separate preamp (which one?) and new power amp to replace the 551 or make the switch to DSP speakers. However the listening room is quite small so I couldn`t go much bigger than the 5000 maybe the 5500. The idea of a sub is intriguing but (and excuse my ignorance) how do I physically wire it in?
Kef reference speakers use a band pass system for the bass section. So they do not have very low bass, but it stays quite nice till the bottum tuning point. I use reference 2 speakers. Below 50Hz it goes down very quickly.. I use a 18" subwoofer, and that does it for me.
Putting more power in a Kef speaker will not help, i have a 558 driving them, so that is about 300 watts on 4 Ohm.
I think that bass is bit relative to where you start from. For example, when I got my first pair of 5k's, they replaced an old pair old Mission 707's and a Sugden amp (this was great when I was a student !). I thought that the bass performance was out of this world even with the 206 I had. Just over a year ago I bought a 596 and 568. The 596 made a huge difference over the 206 and all was still hugely enjoyable. I'd also added another pair of 5k's and a 5k centre. I'm probably in my adolescence with Meridian right now with a this set up as I still have aspirations (albeit not the budget) to go further. 5500's are very tempting and I note with interest Mr Doody's comment about that upgrade. This weekend I started seeing what a sub would do for the system. I borrowed an M&K1250THX, which after a bit of faffing around really sounded quite good. The extra depth on music (in stereo preset mode) was really very enjoyable. Hence my comment about it being relative to where you come from in your hi-fi journey. Moments before switching it on, I didn't think there was going to be much difference in musical sensation, but I was wrong. 5.1 movies also sound totally different with the .1 going through a dedicated sub rather than all the 5k's. Loads more detail all round. I wonder now what a pair 5500's would do at the front or even 6000's. (Good job my wife won't be reading this;-)) I guess you just have to do some demo's to find out what works with what (and your budget) cheers NickL
[This message has been edited by ncpl (edited 02-17-2002).]
I have two 5500's front, 5000C center, and four 5000's side and rear. With the two 5500's, I have no need for a sub. The bass is awesome for both theater and music.
I might want to upgrade to a 5500C, tho, based on mrdoody's comments.
No, the parametric eq that I have does not have digital inputs, analog only. I am sure that this unit was designed for sound re-enforcement for performing bands but for my application it seems to work just fine. I have it installed between the 568 and the active sub so it really only has to handle ~260 Hz and below (2 octaves above set point). The unit is from Behringer and the model is "feedback destroyer pro dsp1124". Although there are 12 bands per channel (2 channels) I am using 4 bands, set to manual parametric, all others are set to off. Each filter can have several different operating modes: parametric, off, single shot and automatic. I'm pretty sure that only the first 2 apply to the HT crowd. Since it is a digital unit it does A=>D and a D=>A (48K/24) conversions but on the upside it is quite flexible and even has 10 different stored presets, possible use music, movies? I used a Radio Shack SPL meter, some graph paper and an andio sine generator to perform the measurements.
Thanks for the info. I found the product online: http://www.behringer.de/DSP1124P/ Unfortunately I do need those digital in- and outputs, since I have DSP speakers. Maybe the ULTRA-CURVE PRO DSP8024 (see http://www.behringer.de/DSP8024/ ) is more suitable for my needs. I have already been searching a very long time for a parametric eq with digital in- and outputs, and all I have found so far is the Z-Systems products, but they are just far too expensive.
The Tact room correction system now has optional software to do parametric EQ. I don't know what "expensive" means to you, but the RCS is around $3400 and the extra software is around $250.
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