Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems 800 vs. SB+

On Saturday I visited ncpl to audition DSP8000s in a real life domestic environment rather than hotel demo rooms or Meridian's Factory Theatre which have been my previous reference points. They are awesome speakers and much to my wife's chagrin the visit has only served to further fuel my "want".

During the afternoon we decided to have some extra fun and audition my 800 (original v1 to v3 & then v4 with HDMI) against his SB+ (modified squeezebox - ncpl will be better placed to give details of that). Now in no way was this a scientific test, it wasn't double blind or even blind, the cueing of tracks on the two sources was as good as we could get it with ncpl pressing two buttons at same time, and the level matching seemed good (by ear) so we didn't attempt to calibrate that. The rest of the system was G68 and DSP8000s using Direct. Our ears were only slightly lubricated so I'm sure alcohol wasn't influencing what we heard too much.

Of course ncpl loves the convenience of the SB+ but also believes in Meridian magic, and I desperately want my decision to buy the 800 to be 100% justified so there may be some bias in our listening.

Well it was fascinating... the 800 in no way "smoked" the SB+. Indeed the two were so close that given a few minutes listening to any track it was easy to forget which one we were listening to. In 2 "blind tests" (with my eyes closed) I managed to guess wrong twice. I think we'd both find it difficult to know which was which if walking into the room with one playing and no other reference. Although there were slight differences you could hear on direct a/b switching they were that close!

If pushed for a more thorough description I'd say the 800 had a warmer, slightly fuller, slightly more laid back presentation, very relaxing, very comfortable. On solo instruments - violin for example - I felt the tone was more pleasing on the 800, the SB+ having a fractionally more strident tone (and I do mean mere fractions) but with no live reference (even though my sons both play violin and viola) it's hard to say one was more right than the other. I could easily imagine someone else describing the SB+ as maintaining the "leading edge", with better transient attack and the 800 as rolled off but we're talking minute differences, and personal preference will probably play a big part here (never mind the impact of the rest of system).

At times I felt the 800 had a bigger soundstage with better imaging - and then heard the SB+ as just as big. I did feel when the SB+ had it's big soundstage outside the speakers it was leaving a bit more space just inside them (rather like 3 separate left, right and centre images with small gaps between them) whereas the 800 was a more seamless image.

So final conclusions: I think ncpl isn't ditching his SB+ and looking to buy an 800. I'm certainly thinking seriously about an SB+ (I'd been looking at maybe an appleTV or similar to start heading into media serving...). And I'm in love the DSP8000s.

ncpl: thanks for providing your system for the afternoon I really enjoyed it.

Chris

My pleasure !! It was a blast (literally at times) to have a 4-5 hour session just playing with the toys with another similarly minded addict

I'd just reiterate Chris' comments above by saying that the SB+ was surprisingly close (gnat's whisker close) to the 800. We both probably expected the 800 to be noticably superior. No doubt the 800 did sound fabulous but the gap is worryingly (for M I'd think) very very close. As mentioned, a couple of times, we called it wrong !!

Without upsetting anyone's purchasing justifications, you have to have a good think about the relative costs of running an 800 (�10k+ ??) vs a SB+ (�800).

When I think about the most subtle of perceived differences that Chris highlights (and they were so very subtle) I remain evermore optimistic that M could do a lot with a device like an Meridian SB+.

I want (please please please Bob) all the convenience of the format with the M digital expertise/magic. Am hoping now that they don't have to build an HD-DVD player, they might get around to it

Nick

I'm sure you will have told us in a previous thread, but please can you eleborate on how your Squeezebox has been modified, by whom, and the sort of cost involved?

Thanks

Neil

It sounds like it was close enough that you'd have to do calibration and blind testing to see if there is any real difference. Although with two digital sources they should be the same volume.

I love seeing an objective honest comparison with no hidden agendas. Thanks for sharing.

I suspect the difference between SB and SB+ is just as "slim" (pun intended).

It only makes sense for M to do this if they can make a significant improvement upon the SB, and I'm not really sure there's much they can add. And judging from what I read on here, ergonomics is not one of M's strong suits.

Mark S

Hi there,

I've recently bought a Logitech Transporter as I wanted balanced outputs something the SB+ doesn`t have. I put it against an early 800 and a V3 800 and to my ears the Transporter wins hands down in so many ways, obviously cost, convenience but most importantly it is very difficult to my ears to know which player the music was playing through. Could just be my ears but other people I`ve spoken to seem to have similar views.

Anyway so I`ve sold one 800 and I am in the process of purchasing an 808.2i (I need the Pre-Amp section) but I am left wondering if the sound quality will be any better?

Out of interest and I`m not the seller there is a SB+ for sale on Pink Fish �700 or offers.

Tim.

@ George,
we obviously didn't try an all-ways test vs a SB3, but, my subjective ears did originally find the SB+ to be a pleasing change. Finer sound - bass notes and decay, tings of triangles/hi-hats etc. I might just try them side-by-side next time I'm allowed a whole afternoon's indulgence. How 'slim' the difference might be would be a hard one to predict I think. We didn't predict the SB+ to be so close but it was. I don't think that means every digital source comparison warrants the same prediction.

@ Neil
Re: the mod. Just find Patrick Dixon on the Slim forum. Last I saw was �800 for all digital and �1000 for an analogue SB+. Not sure if that's still the case.

@MarkS
I think M will know how to do good things to the jitter, buffers, magical apodising filters, etc etc...all of which should make a very top performer.
The key will be "at what price". The issue we may face is whether we are close to performance limit of digital transports now. Maybe it takes a new filter to achieve the next level.

But wouldn't it be nice to think that we might never have to upgrade .

My experience using a computer playing uncompressed AIFF files as a source vs my 800 mirrors yours. I really can't discern between the two except perhaps on certain jazz passages where I feel the music has a tiny bit more life from the 800- but its extremely minor and could be purely psychological.

best regards
Jerry

That's one advantage to this whole "HDMI delay" all our "old stuff" is staying "current" :-)

That's a good point George and I find myself re-thinking about Bob's slightly strange answers to the questions on the visit last Feb about servers, wi-fi etc. Perhaps he knew 12 months ago that CD does have some life left in it i.e. it can be made 'even better'. It's not enough to make me want to spin CD's again..although I buy more than ever.

This is becoming a bit of a stuck record.

As you say, "bits delivered bit perfect are.....well....". We now know this is not true. The 808.2i with its new filter system, and by virtue of that we know that Meridian can filter things once its been read off disc, it is entirely possible, and in the case of the new upsampling CD players, definitely the case, that Meridian do do something with the bits before sending passing them on that has a very positive effect on the sound with the new players and likely to have some affect on the older generation of players which is why people can differentiate between players that would otherwise sound identical.